Delta forces Expert Flyer to pull all Delta flight info

[FWAAA]

Today, Delta requested that Expert Flyer remove all flight info from its site.  When searching for DL flights/inventory, this message pops up: 

Delta has requested that we no longer offer to you any information on ExpertFlyer pertaining to Delta, and as such Delta flight data is unavailable at this time. More information about the change and how to send feedback to Delta about it can be found here. Thank you for your understanding.

 
A few weeks ago, DL ordered Expert Flyer to pull all upgrade and award seat inventory data;   now,  DL has decided that EF can no longer display any data about DL flights.    Here is the full message from EF:
 

Changes to Delta Data Visibility
Delta has requested that we no longer offer to you any information on ExpertFlyer pertaining to Delta. Since our inception almost 10 years ago we have accessed Delta information through a GDS where they publish information for the benefit of various travel providers. We have always done this with the full knowledge and tacit approval of Delta. However, there now appears to be a change of thinking at Delta where this is no longer the case. As a result, we will no longer display Delta information in any of our Tools, including Flight Availability, Upgrades, Seat Maps, Fare Information, Flights Status, Flight Details, and Flight Timetables. All Alerts of all types for Delta will be set to Expired as to not count against your active alert limit.
 
To be clear, this action is not unique to ExpertFlyer. Delta has recently been removing their data from many websites, both booking and non-booking, in an attempt to force as many travelers as possible to only use delta.com and their apps for Delta information. In our many conversations with Delta it was made clear to us that their new policy is that any service or website that is not explicitly authorized to show Delta data will be forced to stop, especially any that screen scrape data from Delta.com or any Delta partner or agency website.
 
Our many attempts to forge a new agreement for the display of this information on ExpertFlyer with Delta have been rejected. We believe, and have explained to them, that ExpertFlyer brought value to Delta's best customers and by extension to Delta itself. We hope in the future Delta will come to see the net value that ExpertFlyer gives to them as you have already discovered. Should you wish to express your thoughts on this matter to Delta, you can reach customer support here:

Delta Email Feedback
You may also send a copy of any feedback you send to ExpertFlyer at [email protected] and we can pass it along to our contacts at Delta.

As always, thank you for your continued support.
-The ExpertFlyer.com Team

 
Expert Flyer mentions "screen scraping," yet has previously said that it does not obtain DL info via screen scraping but instead by paying a GDS for the data.   That's what makes the reference to "screen scraping" somewhat interesting.   Perhaps it's a reference to a competitor,  KVS Tool, software that users download onto their PC which then screen scrapes to obtain inventory data.   
 
Probably only a matter of time before Parker and Smisek do the same thing.   Informed consumers don't make the same profitable decisions that uninformed consumers sometimes make.   

 

[FWAAA]

Possibly related to this federal class action suit filed over DL's Best Fare Guarantee.   Apparently the plaintiff searched fare and inventory data on EF and then cited the results of the search in their complaint against DL:
 
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/pi/deltas-best-fare-guarantee-doesnt-offer-cheapest-flights-wisconsin-lawsuit-alleges-b99328485z1-270819081.html
 
http://media.jrn.com/documents/deltaclassaction.pdf

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Today, Delta requested that Expert Flyer remove all flight info from its site.  When searching for DL flights/inventory, this message pops up: 

 
A few weeks ago, DL ordered Expert Flyer to pull all upgrade and award seat inventory data;   now,  DL has decided that EF can no longer display any data about DL flights.    Here is the full message from EF:
 

 
Expert Flyer mentions "screen scraping," yet has previously said that it does not obtain DL info via screen scraping but instead by paying a GDS for the data.   That's what makes the reference to "screen scraping" somewhat interesting.   Perhaps it's a reference to a competitor,  KVS Tool, software that users download onto their PC which then screen scrapes to obtain inventory data.   
 
Probably only a matter of time before Parker and Smisek do the same thing.   Informed consumers don't make the same profitable decisions that uninformed consumers sometimes make.

Do you think the "expert flyers" will find another way (work around) to get/share the data needed to make better decisions to obtain a better flying experience?

 

[eolesen]

I read thru the complaint, which has a great plug for Amadeus's "Active Valuation" product, and asserts that DL uses it.

They might use pieces of that product on partner bookings thru AFKL, but I'm pretty certain that DL developed their own version for their own sales channels. RM and fare quote aren't exactly rocket science.

Regardless, I'm sure that the product management and PR folks are grateful for some free publicity and the assertion that DL is an Amadeus customer.

 

[FWAAA]

Do you think the "expert flyers" will find another way (work around) to get/share the data needed to make better decisions to obtain a better flying experience?

Sabre GDS access is available for $45/mo with no ARC number required, which is what I'll do if/when AA pulls the plug on Expert Flyer ($8.25/mo).   Doesn't take too many favorable AAdvantage awards/upgrades per year to make the $540/yr  pay for itself.  

 

[eolesen]

I think that's how Cranky Concierge works, and access could be a better investment for some than an Admirals Club membership, since it presumably gives you access to availability on any airline you chose to fly on.

 

[WorldTraveler]

what is most interesting is that DL does not appear interested in negotiating and Expert Flyer doesn't apparently have any recourse.

Airlines have been increasingly focused on controlling their own content and disseminating it as they wish.

The AA case (version 2) and this case with DL shows that airlines do get what they want, even if it is an incremental process.

 

[eolesen]

There's no doubt that DL strong-armed EF into removing the DL data, but it's still questionable if DL had the legal backing to be able to force it.

EF was getting their data thru a contract with a GDS. Without knowing how each contract (the contract between DL and the GDS, and the contract between the GDS and EF) was structured, it's hard to say if DL could really control how the data was used. I can't say I've ever seen restrictions on how availability or seatmaps are used.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and there is a difference between viewing and publishing the info.

DL has the right to allow publication of its info as it sees fit as does any airline.

Data belongs to the owner; it should not be a concept you should have trouble understanding.

 

[FWAAA]

There's no doubt that DL strong-armed EF into removing the DL data, but it's still questionable if DL had the legal backing to be able to force it.

EF was getting their data thru a contract with a GDS. Without knowing how each contract (the contract between DL and the GDS, and the contract between the GDS and EF) was structured, it's hard to say if DL could really control how the data was used. I can't say I've ever seen restrictions on how availability or seatmaps are used.

The only other instances I can remember happened when Delta and United both "requested" that EF not display the upgrade/award ticket class inventories.   
 

and there is a difference between viewing and publishing the info.

DL has the right to allow publication of its info as it sees fit as does any airline.

Data belongs to the owner; it should not be a concept you should have trouble understanding.

It's not my area of law, but I thought the individual airlines could restrict the distribution of the fare and inventory data they publish on the various GDS.    If you're a subscriber, you get to look at it (presumably because you're a travel agent and you're using the info to sell travel).   But to begin a business where you access that data and distribute it to subscribers for a fee, I would have thought you needed permission from the various airlines.  Expert Flyer displays data for maybe half the biggest airlines, leading me to think the others have not granted that permission.
 
On Flyertalk, there is one outspoken lawyer in the Delta forum claiming that "information cannot be copyrighted," and citing the US Supreme Court's decision in the White Pages telephone directory case (which I don't think is a relevant case - it's simply not on-point) while over on the United forum, another lawyer is claiming that "information cannot be owned," but not citing any legal authorities for that proposition.  
 
Expert Flyer itself has said that it has had the "tacit approval" of Delta to display the Delta data, but that DL has now "requested" that EF pull all DL information.   

 

[Kev3188]

Cranky weighs in; gives DL one of his "Jacka$$ awards."

http://crankyflier.com/2014/09/09/delta-earns-a-cranky-jackass-award-for-its-increasingly-obnoxious-policies-around-third-party-tools/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CrankyFlier+%28The+Cranky+Flier%29

 

[WorldTraveler]

...which of course will do wonders to gain access to DL's facilities and personnel as Cranky done in the past.

DL is doing what it is doing for the same reason that other companies restrict access to their databases by those outside of the company - to protect their strategies and ability to manage their revenues.

It isn't rocket science. It also isn't anything new.

"Late last year, Delta told ExpertFlyer that it would no longer allow the service to display upgrade availability. Then, just last week, Delta told ExpertFlyer to stop showing anything related to Delta at all. Apparently Delta prefers to keep its customers in the dark, since it hasn’t provided any kind of alternative to them."

DL asked ExpertFlyer to cease and desist and yet they continued.

It isn't any surprise that DL escalated the issue - which is what you do when a party doesn't choose to do what you ask in a civil case.

ExpertFlyer obviously did not have the legal basis to do what they were doing because they have now stopped.

 

[eolesen]

Brett's not exactly in business to gain access to DL. Given how some of the other industry observers are stacking up against DL's action, he's not alone in his criticism, either.

The point is that EF was using data that DL made public thru a third party (the GDS). Being selective in who gets to use public data and who doesn't is a bit specious.

It would be almost like DL approaching WT and saying he wasn't allowed to refer to DL's positions in the DOT rankings or T-100 data anymore, or approaching FlightStats and saying that DL's flights can't be shown anymore, even though they're getting the flifo data via a mix of public and third party sources.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and DL clearly weighed the response it would get just as much as it did when it changed to a spend based Skymiles program and in moves such as changes to upgrade policies on the JFK transcons.

Problem w/ your analogy is that the DOT data IS public information. DL's information is not. No GDS has the right to publish the information beyond what is displayed to users.

whether you or cranky wants to admit it or not, DL is doing what it is doing from a position of strength in the industry and all of these supposedly risky moves that DL has made have not harmed DL in the industry.

 

[eolesen]

DL over-reached and abused their position of strength, and chose to go after a small business owner who doesn't have the ability to defend themselves against the likes of a DL.

One move by itself is indeed hard to measure, but when you start adding up all the changes made, it's looking more and more like DL's alienating some of its best customers.