Delta's use of temps worries full-timers

[WorldTraveler]

Kevin,
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Glad you responded.
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Delta Air Lines has never used slave labor and I have not worked as a slave at any time in my life. You are and never have been a slave – you show up for work because you choose to do so and you are compensated accordingly.
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What you continue to fight and what has colored your participation in online forums for four years is that Delta Air Lines is a largely non-union company which conflicts with your ideals about the American workplace and your belief that employees through labor unions should have a voice in the labor-mgmt process.
I commend you for remaining faithful to your vision and have encouraged you multiple times to pursue those ideals.
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But I and others have been rather clear that the likelihood that you will see the type of labor-mgmt relations at Delta that you want is slim to none.
Delta has a formula that works and they have little to no reason to change that formula even though they acquired a company which had a very different culture.
The fact that the combined workforce voted multiple times on whether to continue with PMNW’s style of labor-mgmt relations or use the PMDL formula –with not a single of the major workgroups deciding to change PMDL’s historic practices – validates that a majority of the combined workforce does not desire to see the same type of labor-mgmt relations that you seek.
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If you want to continue to chase an ideal that is highly unlikely to become reality, then no one can stop you from doing that.
But the far more logical choice would be for you to either figure out how to adapt to use the enormous talents and abilities you have within the context where you now exist (even if you would have never have chosen to be there) or whether you find it in your and Delta’s best interests for you to find another avenue for you pursue what matters to you.
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There is no shortage of people, including me, who would love to see you find a find a place in life where you can succeed at the things that matter to you.

 

[Kev3188]

All that to basically say "if you don't like it, leave?"

Really?

You can do better.

 

[WorldTraveler]

All that to basically say "if you don't like it, leave?"

Really?

You can do better.

no, Kevin. I will not tell someone what to do with the choices they make in their life.
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But I will ask serioius questions and expect you to critically evaluate those questions.
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In your case, the question is really, "if DL is not the kind of company you can believe in, why do you stay?".
One more time in somewhat different verbiage, "If the values you hold are incompatible with what DL is, then why do you continue to invest your time and energy there?"
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Those are questions of integrity and personal satisfaction, Kev.
Why would you waste the relatively few years you have on earth where you have the possibility to make a difference doing something with someone that you can't believe in?
What are your goals in life?
What is the end stage in your idealogical standoff with Delta?
What do you think your odds are of achieving what you want and are you willing to get to the end of your life/career and find out that you have not achieved what you belileve is important, instead investing your energy in a company that perpetuates values contrary to what you believe?

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I COMMEND you and others for having values different from the establishment, for having ideals that aren't rubberstamped by the rest of the world (even though you apparently think I spinelessly accept the status quo served to me).
But I have a hard time understanding how you or others spend hours, yeah years, complaining about a system that you don't believe in but are unable or unwilling to come up with a plan to make happen what matters to you.

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You're a smart man, Kevin.
Make your mark on the world. And make sure it has your name boldly written on it.
You have every reason to be proud of who you are and what you stand for.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

The number of RR's offered FT spots pales in comparison to the number of FT people backfilled with RR's.

I realize it's easier for you to just parrot the company line, but the question you *should* be asking is why does the company finds these employees' comments to a reporter to be an issue?

Kev, employees get punished for voicing their opinion to management, even if the employee is holding the op manual in his hand to prove the employee right! "Causing dissension among the rank and file by repetitiously repeating management's deviation in policy." :blink:

 

[Kev3188]

This isn't about me, and really my personal goals are none of your (or anyone's) business.

The issue is about a company that finds employees speaking up/out to be a threat- even when they acknowledge no violation of relevant policies-and why that may be.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Kevin and others,
No, it isn’t just about you. And, I’m not asking you to post your goals on this forum or share them with anyone if you don’t want to. But you and others should know without a shadow of a doubt at 2.30 in the morning what you want to do in life, how whatever job you are doing fits in those goals, and an plan to bring about change if your goals and where you are in life doesn’t align.
After almost four years after the DL-NW merger was announced, it should be very clear what DL is and whether you can fit in with who they are.
I’m simply saying that there are many people who spend years and years of their lives doing something they don’t like to do with a company they don’t really like. What an epic tragedy!
I know you were perfectly happy with life the way it existed at NW… but life takes twists and turns and we don’t always get what we want, esp. in business where the simple reality is that money and power that is far above our level influences our lives.
It is perfectly acceptable to come to the realization that where I am in life is not where I want to be – and in some cases, I didn’t move but the world around me moved, leaving me as the one who doesn’t fit in.
Either way, it is up to each one of us to retake control of our lives if we are to achieve what we want to do in life – and each of us can and will define that differently.
And I suspect that if you come to the realization that DL is just a place that you are passing through, then the things that go on there are not near as consequential as a lot of things get made out to be. If OTOH, DL does things that deeply grate on who you are and you believe those things are essential to the world you want, then perhaps it is time to refocus your life to achieve those things.
What should be apparent is that no one else, including DL, is going to change to accommodate you, especially if they are succeeding at what they do right now.
Hope your weekend is great!

 

[Kev3188]

Kevin and others,
No, it isn’t just about you.

That's right, and you should've stopped right there.

And yet, you contradicted yourself, and spared no word count in doing so. Knock it off. Seriously.

Once again, it is not about me, any sort of "idealogical struggle" (GMAFB), or what my plans in life are.

The topic has two tangents; the original topic about the Ready Reserve program, or the issue with how the company handled those that were quoted.

Pick one.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Kevin,
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My line of question has clearly evoked a response I did not expect or intend - and I am deeply sorry for going down that path.
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I simply find it hard to understand how two policies and programs that have existed at DL for over 30 years - a media policy and the ready reserve program - have become the flash point in this conversation when tens of thousands of Delta employees have managed to live with them and still prosper.
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I am at a loss to understand what has changed.
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again, my sincere apologies for asking the questions I have asked.

 

[Kev3188]

The main concern with the RR program isn't that it exists, but rather just how much it's grown over the last 3-4 years. By the company's own account about a year ago, the program's size had grown 3x in size over the previous 3 years. It has only continued to grown since then.

Add to that that all hiring in ACS is now done via the RR program, that there is NO cap on the number that can be used compared to benefitted employees, and that most all vacated positions are backfilled with RR's, and it's easy to see why the company's "use of temps worries full timers."

As for the media policy, MY concern is the message the company is sending. And really, if they're so concerned, then why has there been no similar discussion with those employees who run anti labor and/or pro company sites on the web?Some even use the company's name and/or logo. Surely, they're subject to the same policies, no? The fact that these 2 employees are visible labor activists raises too many questions for me, and doesn't pass the sniff test. the company was definitely trying to telegraph a tacit message to the masses.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

What should be apparent is that no one else, including DL, is going to change to accommodate you, especially if they are succeeding at what they do right now.
Hope your weekend is great!

WT,
No one is asking DL to change. DL has already changed. All i would like for them to do is follow the policies that they have adopted within the HRPM and SOP. Period. I think is very important for management to familiarize themselves with the policies so that everyone can be in one accord vs. deviate and then later state "well, it's done now." 🙁

 

[WorldTraveler]

My commendations to both of you for continuing the conversation as we collectively lower the temperature to a more productive level.
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I don't and never would defend inconsistent application of rules that you note, BnB at either DL or any other company. I am not sure of the circumstances to which you refer but I am certain the inconsistency you note does occur. I would note simply that there is nothing about DL that makes them more or less subject to inconsistency; much of the inconsistency you cite in any company comes from lower level mgmt interpretation of rules that someone else would not interpret the same way, including senior level mgmt.
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I don't think DL or any large, multi-site company wants to be inconsistent either. I believe it is within your right to raise issues which you see inconsistently applied to higher levels.
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As to the concerns about the size of the RR program, yes, it is growing but keep in mind that DL started the trend w/ ACS costs with its outsourcing back in the mid90s with 7.5 and even before that with the RR program. There was never any limit set as to what size either program could be - which of course is part of the rub w/ DL's non-union environment. But whether you agree with the RR program or not, you have to acknowledge that being largely non-union has given them flexibility to adapt to changing market conditions - and this year with its increasing fuel prices which requires airlines to quickly adapt or lose money quickly - and that is precisely why DL has managed to jump ahead of competitors.
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I also believe it is key to note that DL's philosophy has long been that it largely grandfathers existing employees when policies change while subjecting new employees (and I know in some cases that has included merged employees). That is precisely why DL has been able to avoid the level of layoffs that other companies have had to do - because they have adapted faster and subjected newer employees to different employment terms... a B scale w/ respect to some benefits items.
It is also why I continue to believe that DL does not need to close some of the PMNW small cities that are mainline staffed because they can hire newhires at rates comparable to or lower than outsourced employees while keeping quality at mainline levels.
And honestly if costs have to come down, wouldn't you rather have new hire employees work at lower pay rates as DL employees than to have all jobs outsourced?
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As for the media policy, there have been numerous cases of DL employees being called in for a chat w/ mgmt for issues other than labor related issues. The simple reality is that DL has aggressively enforced its media policy and there is no reason to believe that they are targeting the labor leaders in this situation any more than they have targeted any other employees in the past - and if anything might be treading much more carefully because they are former NW employees, labor leaders, and the reality is that further votes will likely come.
Other employees who had to face management after media policy violations walked out w/ a much different experience.

 

[southwind]

You are advocating a system of servility. If that's the life you choose to live, have at it.

P.S. You've been gone from the company for awhile now; it's okay to be the first one to stop clapping once in awhile.

Is someone forcing you to work in "Servitude" ? Or can you leave whenever you want to ?

A very simple yes or no to each question will suffice !

 

[Kev3188]

Not following you down that rabbit hole.

If after 4 pages of posts you can't figure out where I stand, then you're in worse shape than even I thought.

 

[eolesen]

Other employees who had to face management after media policy violations walked out w/ a much different experience.

Do you know this from firsthand experience, Tim? Or have they tried enforcing their policy on former employees, too? 😉

It is also why I continue to believe that DL does not need to close some of the PMNW small cities that are mainline staffed because they can hire newhires at rates comparable to or lower than outsourced employees while keeping quality at mainline levels.
And honestly if costs have to come down, wouldn't you rather have new hire employees work at lower pay rates as DL employees than to have all jobs outsourced?

This all assumes that having your paycheck coming from DL actually results in a higher quality of service...

My experience is that you get better service from someone with at least the perception of job security than you do from someone who has no guarantee of being employed in three-six months time.

It doesn't matter whose name is on the paycheck --- people tend to give the same level of commitment to their employer as their employer shows to them.

Case and point: when AA outsourced a bunch of smaller cities (10 or so) to non-airline providers (e.g. some FBOs and Johnson Controls) in the mid 90's, customer complaints in those cities actually went down compared to mainline AA staffed and stations where Eagle or another airline handled AA.

Not coincidentally, the third-party providers were more likely to be able to offer full-time and some form of benefits, because they weren't committed to staffing just one airline, and also had the existing GA market in the case of the FBOs.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I couldn't agree more w/ the 2nd part of your post, E.
Employees give what they do in their jobs based on how closely what they experience aligns with their EXPECTATIONS. It is absolutely true that employees who feel that their job is threatened won't deliver decent results.
We have seen this whole drama play out for a good 2 years over on the AA forum as the EXPECTATION that dramatic cuts would come is now becoming reality. Not surprisingly, AA's customer service and operational metrics are near the bottom of the industry - and well below what AA has delivered in the past. Obviously if the company doesn't provide the resources (parts to fix planes) then there is nothing employees can do to fix the problem but even where resources are available, AA employees are not giving what they once did.... and that is an unfortunate but expected part of reorganizations - and every network airline has gone through it.
Most airlines have found some sort of stability again and delivered some level of customer service that fit the company's goals - so any company CAN survive the restructuring process if they have a goal of returning to a position of decency in mind.
And during the transition, sometimes contractor employees (including regional carriers) can and do provide better service than mainline employees.
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And that brings us to where DL is today.
This whole discussion is about expectations....NW did not have a RR program anywhere like DL's and apparently employees had far greater freedom to speak to the press, esp. from a labor standpoint. The issues raised here aren't issues to the majority of PMDL employees because it is the way DL has run its business for years. It is also not an issue for many PMNW employees for whom they are happy just to do their job, do it reasonably well, and get a paycheck - and stay below the bigger issues which have been raised here. There are people who raise issues here who deserve to have their concerns heard, but they don't reflect the opinions of even a large minority of employees. And while there are people in every aspect of life who continue to question why things are as they are, the vast majority of DL employees - PMDL and PMNW - have accepted the changes and are reasonably comfortable enough that they can focus on their job. And it should be noted that there is every reason to believe that even the people who raise issues here do THEIR jobs very well - which is a testament to their ability to focus on what they are paid to do without giving up on their ideals.
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It is very clear from nearly every available metric that DL and its employees are doing a well above average job in running its airline - operational statistics are well above average for network carriers and above even some low fare carriers. DL's financial results are at or above industry averages - whether viewed in absolute terms or as ratios based on the size of various companies in the industry.
here is the DOT's most recent monthly consumer report... you can look at where DL is and note that their improvements are now stretching into multi-quarter and year-old time frames.
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Viewing those metrics, it is clear that DL employees do feel comfortable enough to do their jobs well and the company continues to fix the problems that employees raise and which the company views as issues, esp. regarding automation. I can tell as a passenger that DL people are far more helpful and professional than they were 2 years ago... that is a byproduct of a finished merger and growing stability and it is what is allowing DL to deliver results that are superior to many of its peers.
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It is becoming increasingly apparent that continued efforts to divide DL employees are gaining less and less traction. Kev's advice to not follow some of the continued argumentative threads is spot on and shows that many of these issues have been discussed ad nauseum; few people are being converted by further argumentation.