Diversity

[mga707]

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On 2/24/2003 6:30:15 PM RV4 wrote:

How the hell am I supposed to know what "offends" another? Limits of tolerance in regards to offensive behavior are garnered mostly from parental guidance during our childhood and moral opinions. Which is as impossible to define as it must be to budget.
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[/blockquote]

So true...
Exhibit 'A': the incredibly asinine "Eenie meenie miney moe..." lawsuit...

 

[mga707]

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On 2/24/2003 1036 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:

AA's diversity program is a front to 1: mitigate possible damages; and 2: to pull in revenue from minority groups who might otherwise go elsewhere.
[/blockquote]

Aren't those the REAL reaons for ANY company's 'diversity' program(s)?
Or have I just gotten way too jaded and cynical in my old age?

 

[WingNaPrayer]

You just had to go and say something I agree with...didn't ya.

 

[desertfox]

So true...
Exhibit 'A': the incredibly asinine "Eenie meenie miney moe..." lawsuit...

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I wonder if "1 potato, 2 potato, 3 potato, 4...everyone find a seat we need to close the door" would create any lawsuits? Perhaps Idaho potato farmers?

 

[The Dissident]

So insted of calling the company American Airlines maybe we could rename it:

Diversity Don's Socialist Utopia Airlines

 

[Connected1]

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On 2/24/2003 10:36:55 AM Buck wrote:

My best guess is that Eric is going to be able to provide this info. What say you Eric?
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[/blockquote]
I'm not sure that Eric or anyone else will have a firm answer for you, but I'll give it my best shot. At HDQ, there is a Human Resources manager dedicated to diversity strategies who reports to a Managing Director that reigns over several other managers that have unrelated responsibilities. That's pretty much the extent of our staff that is focused on promoting diversity within AA.

Of course, there are other things that are done around here to promote diversity that also cost money. For instance, in 2001 we implemented a more strongly-worded "Rule 32" (for you outsiders - the company's equivalent of a hate crime law) that required the training of all employees. As a result, we had to ship a good deal (possibly all) of our employees to DFW for training sessions. I'm sure that we also burned some overtime here and there to cover the holes created by the training. It's hard to put a price tag on something like that.

However, the overriding idea behind this or any other HDQ-type function is that we are spending money up front to add value in the future. In the case of diversity initiatives, we are trying to create a more comfortable culture for everyone. The goal is that we will enhance productivity and reduce lawsuits. Again, these savings are pretty hard to quantify, but they are real.

So if you're trying to get at what the company would save if we were not so focused upon diversity, you must also consider what we would cost ourselves as well. If you trust management to spend on these initiatives wisely, then you should expect a net unfavorable result if you were to eliminate the program. However, if you do not trust management to spend on these initiatives wisely, then you may start posting your sarcastic response.....................NOW!!!

 

[DFWCC]

This whole [Rule 32] is a [Rule 32]. Everyone at work thinks this a load of [Rule 32]. AA wants to control what we say [Rule 32]. AA wants to control what we think [rule 32]. Lie, cheat, steal, abuse sick time whatever but don't violate Rule 32. Automatic suspencion...
We are warned just a hint of offensive word and bingo Rule 32. Let me tell you I'm in the trenches and this Rule 32 goes way overboard. I can understand the reasoning behind it, but the threath of it is sacry. I was told you can't kid around with a freind of say 15yrs or so. God forbid [oops sorry Rule 32], the God word might offend an atheist. Well if someone overheard your private conversation then you could be reported to the Rile 32 gestopo police. But hey, AA gave, [what was it $10,000?] to the Dallas gayday parade. They also invited all local employees to take part. I wonder why that doesn't offend [Rule 32] the straights who feel repulsed by their gay lifestyle.
We have the Black, Gay & Lezb, Latino, Muslim, Hindi, Asian, Islander and many other assosciations which are all encouraged by AA's HR dept. I'm looking to join the "old fat bald headed white guys" society. Oops Rule 32, got to take out white and guys. Then I can join...

 

[Buck]

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On 2/25/2003 6:15:53 PM Connected1 wrote:

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On 2/24/2003 10:36:55 AM Buck wrote:

My best guess is that Eric is going to be able to provide this info. What say you Eric?
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[/blockquote]
I'm not sure that Eric or anyone else will have a firm answer for you, but I'll give it my best shot. At HDQ, there is a Human Resources manager dedicated to diversity strategies who reports to a Managing Director that reigns over several other managers that have unrelated responsibilities. That's pretty much the extent of our staff that is focused on promoting diversity within AA.

Of course, there are other things that are done around here to promote diversity that also cost money. For instance, in 2001 we implemented a more strongly-worded "Rule 32" (for you outsiders - the company's equivalent of a hate crime law) that required the training of all employees. As a result, we had to ship a good deal (possibly all) of our employees to DFW for training sessions. I'm sure that we also burned some overtime here and there to cover the holes created by the training. It's hard to put a price tag on something like that.

However, the overriding idea behind this or any other HDQ-type function is that we are spending money up front to add value in the future. In the case of diversity initiatives, we are trying to create a more comfortable culture for everyone. The goal is that we will enhance productivity and reduce lawsuits. Again, these savings are pretty hard to quantify, but they are real.

So if you're trying to get at what the company would save if we were not so focused upon diversity, you must also consider what we would cost ourselves as well. If you trust management to spend on these initiatives wisely, then you should expect a net unfavorable result if you were to eliminate the program. However, if you do not trust management to spend on these initiatives wisely, then you may start posting your sarcastic response.....................NOW!!!
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[/blockquote]

First of all I cannot believe that a corporation like American Airlines cannot define an expense no matter how complex. Is this what is wrong with the airline as a whole? The Human Resource Manager has an annual budget, correct? How much is that? You state that there are several other managers that have unrelated responsibilities, and then you say they are part of the staff for promoting diversity. Which is it? If you are sending people for training and not documenting the time or overtime, that is theft of company resources. It should be documented and not hard to put a price tag on any expenditure. Is this the waste that needs to be controlled? Spending money now for the future? Mr. Carty is telling the rest of us to look for was to save not spend it now to save later. What kind of value can you add at the cost of the airline? That is really a stupid concept. Why do you need to create a more comfortable culture for anyone? Treat all employees equally and with respect, ensure that all are treaty by one set of Rules, as in 32, and leave it that. You seem to forget as does most of the corporation that the purpose of this company is to provide transportation for the public, not to cater to the social issues of the employee that places us in one of the lower rated workplaces in the world. What should be addressed for the employee is how do we become a company that is in the top 100 places to work. The diversity program in itself is conducive to the creation of lawsuits in its very nature. Those who cannot quantify their budgets need to be removed from their function in this company. The maintenance of the aircraft that we as an airline require are held to a budget that the managers and directors etc.. must answer for, so why not any other program? The question is not whether to trust management or not, but for management to provide for the proper cost efficient operation of this airline and be responsible to the stock holder.

Why are you so angry?

My original question was how much does this diversity program cost? Not what you can get away with under the guise of a program titled Diversity……..

 

[KCFlyer]

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring." And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California! But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

And now, we have departments to insure that we are aware of everybody's differences. Martin must be rolling over in his grave.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 2/24/2003 9:58:25 PM desertfox wrote:

So true...
Exhibit 'A': the incredibly asinine "Eenie meenie miney moe..." lawsuit...

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[/blockquote]

I wonder if "1 potato, 2 potato, 3 potato, 4...everyone find a seat we need to close the door" would create any lawsuits? Perhaps Idaho potato farmers?
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[/blockquote]

I'm sorry, but this insensitive remark about potato's is an insult to the Irish Americans who immigrated to America during the potato famine. I'll be in touch with my lawyers, Dewey, Cheathum and Howe.

 

[ArtTang]

Some may perceive AA's diversity programs as a waste. I have been employed at AA for 17 years and I imagine the programs came about in response to various lawsuits. I am not so green as to believe AA created such programs out of altruism. However, the company found a way to turn lemons into lemonade as it encouraged the groups to promote AA in their respective communities. Much business has been generated by the African American, Gay & Lesbian, and Christian groups' efforts, etc...I know because I have participated in such promotional gigs over the years.
Now, many employess may not appreciate AA overtly supporting certain events (i.e. Gay & Lesbian Pride Parade) but these same AAers have no problem taking money from these diverse communities as they fly on our airline. Having said this, it is clear where this poster's sentiments lie toward gays as he seems rather preoccupied by AA's endorsement of a Gay Pride Parade. There is nothing anyone can write on this forum to open this person's mind, but I would like to explain how the Gay & Lesbian diversity group at AA has helped in various communities as well as AA's own employees.
GLEAAM (AA's "rainbow" diveristy group) has raised a great deal of money over the years for local AIDS, hospice and various other charities on behalf of American Airlines. AA enjoys a solid reputation in the gay community because the company cares and is inclusive. Furthermore, GLEAAM fought long and hard to obtain basic benefits for gay & lesbian employees that ultimately resulted in more equitable compensation for all employees at AMR. Of course, there will always be the employee who believes these equal benefits should not be offered because he is "repulsed" by gays, but that is a sad aspect of human nature that is here to stay. I don't condemn my colleagues for repeatedly marrying and divorcing and having children with three different mates, so I expect the same consideration in return.
I remember a young pilot who had transferred to MIA from SFO a few years ago and I asked him how he liked east coast living. He said he liked the beaches better and was glad to get away from all the "stupid Chinks" in the bay area. He had no way of knowing I am half Chinese and was rather embarassed when I told him so. I have also had numerous unpleasant experiences over the years of listening to colleagues tell poor jokes or use offensive words while referring to gays. I have never reported anyone to the "Gestapo" for such offenses, but I did set them straight. I think the frequency of such insults has ebbed; perhaps the diversity programs at AA have had some pay off!
Whether one agrees with the diversity programs or not, they are an excellent venue for promoting our company in specific target communities. Also, I imagine the programs offer a degree of protection from frivolous lawsuits that crop up from time to time.
The original question that opened this thread is a valid one, however. How much does such a program cost AMR? Perhaps the better question would be, "How much does the program generate for AMR?"

Art in MIA


Total Posts: 60
Last Post: 2/25/2003
Member Since: 8/20/2002

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This whole is a . Everyone at work thinks this a load of . AA wants to control what we say . AA wants to control what we think . Lie, cheat, steal, abuse sick time whatever but don't violate Rule 32. Automatic suspencion...
We are warned just a hint of offensive word and bingo Rule 32. Let me tell you I'm in the trenches and this Rule 32 goes way overboard. I can understand the reasoning behind it, but the threath of it is sacry. I was told you can't kid around with a freind of say 15yrs or so. God forbid , the God word might offend an atheist. Well if someone overheard your private conversation then you could be reported to the Rile 32 gestopo police. But hey, AA gave, to the Dallas gayday parade. They also invited all local employees to take part. I wonder why that doesn't offend the straights who feel repulsed by their gay lifestyle.
We have the Black, Gay & Lezb, Latino, Muslim, Hindi, Asian, Islander and many other assosciations which are all encouraged by AA's HR dept. I'm looking to join the "old fat bald headed white guys" society. Oops Rule 32, got to take out white and guys. Then I can join...

 

[Hopeful]

Promoting Diversity is a positive thing. But let's not forget those who use the Rule 32 as a crutch. I have seen people of all persuasions get hired by AA as mechanics who couldn't tie their shoes without a manual. They were representative of all races, religions and creeds. And when it came time to evaluate them and they were informed they would not be making probation, there were those who used the discrimination card to stay on with AA. One individual was allowed to take his trade test THREE times because he played the "card." He failed all THREE times but was kept as a mechanic. He has, to date, been solely responsible for three air interruptions.The white dudes were walked out the door with no cards to play.

 

[DFWCC]

Art in MIA,
I only write what I see. Hopeful is right. There is so much of this "playing the race card" it hampers the rest of the operation. As a CC here at DFW I know who the slugs are and that they are untouchable. They can get away with what they want and when I've tried to talk to one who had cosistently taken 60 to 75 min breaks. They come back and say "you don't like my race of people". That my freind is a warning. One word and Rule 32. I will get immediately suspended until a hearing. I will hopefully be found innocent and reinstatted. The hassles and threat of loosing one's job is too much a price to pay. You never know when HR will want to make an example of someone.
As far as G & Ls are concerned. I don't care what color, creed, race, sex, party affiliation, or whatever one's personal lifestyle is. The main point here is to do your job.
What I don't like is AA going head over heels to please and protect one certain gtoup of people when all should be protected equally. We all have a right to work in a safe enviroment free of social jabs or whatever. Beleive me, yes I've been the but of jokes also. Its not a kintergarden world out there Heaven is the only ideal place you'll ever find. I only use that word not to offend a non-beleiver but as a place that is in general terms accepted to be a utopia.

 

[Buck]

When I initially started this topic, the sole purpose was to determine the cost of the Diversity program. Not to determine whether employees are in favor of it or not. I have in the past e-mailed Mr. Carty under his "How can we save money" program as posted on the JetNet, suggesting that we apply said conditions and rules of the Diversity program as they are today and make a real attempt to save the company money. I never said elimnate this program, just stop funding for now. Of course their has been no response.

As put by Connected1:

"However, the overriding idea behind this or any other HDQ-type function is that we are spending money up front to add value in the future. In the case of diversity initiatives, we are trying to create a more comfortable culture for everyone. The goal is that we will enhance productivity and reduce lawsuits. Again, these savings are pretty hard to quantify, but they are real."

Spending money upfront for programs you cannot quantify? And that Savings are real, but you cannot quantify those either.

It is time for the business model to go.

If the situation here at American Airlines is so dire, then any department that cannot quantify their budgets need to be removed. I believe if American is "forced" into or voluntarily goes into Bankruptcy, the judge will want to see real figures. So do not expect any cooperation from labor if HDQ is not willing to answer a simple question as to how much a program costs.

 

[Connected1]

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On 2/26/2003 121 AM Buck wrote:

My original question was how much does this diversity program cost? Not what you can get away with under the guise of a program titled Diversity..
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I won't take your rant personally considering that you probably had it drafted up even before I responded. You obviously needed a place to vent, but I'm not sure why you waited for a response to do so. In the future, please don't waste my, or anyone else's, time by pretending to want some real information. If you have a need to rant, nobody's stopping you. Just ask WNP.