Diversity

[Buck]

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On 2/26/2003 9:15:18 AM Connected1 wrote:

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On 2/26/2003 121 AM Buck wrote:

My original question was how much does this diversity program cost? Not what you can get away with under the guise of a program titled Diversity..
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I won't take your rant personally considering that you probably had it drafted up even before I responded. You obviously needed a place to vent, but I'm not sure why you waited for a response to do so. In the future, please don't waste my, or anyone else's, time by pretending to want some real information. If you have a need to rant, nobody's stopping you. Just ask WNP.
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I could care less if you take my postings personal or not, that goes for WnP and anyone else. Your assumption that I had my response drafted provides your ego with to much credit. You seem to be not sure of how to quantify the Diversity program so why respond.

"Because topics like these have a tendency to get personal, political, and out of context very quickly.

The original question was a valid one, but one which could go off the reservation with a single comment."

 

[Hopeful]

Let's put it this way. When people use the Diversity program as a crutch and refer to rule to 32 frivolously, it costs AA money and resources.

 

[DFWCC]

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On 2/24/2003 929 AM Buck wrote:

What does American Airlines spend on their Diversity program?
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[/blockquote]

I don't have any idea what the totel cost is. I do know that about 2700 FSC have to go through a 2 to 3 hr training program with an instr. Who couldn't by the way solve an issue for me, but that's another story. While these 10 to 15 people are in training class the training dept will send out as-assigned people from a training replacement pool. That is their sole purpose to work as temp replacements while others are being trained.
Now you tell me what is the cost of keeping 10 or 12 FSC to be used for Deversity Training replacements. I would think at @ $250/day ie. pay + benefits, times 10 = $2500/pay X 5day/wk =$12500. Now figure if they are here all yr that my freinds is $650,000. No small chump change. Lets expand that to about 32,000 FSC and AMTs. With the addition of AMTs the ave cost per day might go up to $300/day and another say 10 Replacement AMTs. Are we looking at 20 emp at $300/day for 52 wks and wow $1,560,000. I almost forgot The number should be half bec at 2 to 3 hr a session there would be 2/day. So make that about $780,000. I'm sure the FAs and Pilots also have a program. Lets also not forget HDQ. All these cost are rolled into training and will no show as a diversity related cost.
Ok people fire away..
It is just what I see..

 

[ArtTang]

I agree that it is repulsive for anyone to play the race card or use gender or sexual orientation as a crutch under any circumstance. We are in accord here! I agree in EQUALITY. No special treatment for any single group or individual. We ALL should receive EQUAL benefits and consideration.
There are always going to be positives and negatives with programs such as AMR's "Diversity Program" because there will always be unscrupulous people who abuse the protections. Does this negate the good that has come of the program? I don't know. I guess it boils down to: Do the positives outweigh the negatives, or vice versa? That is a veritable conundrum.
I am sorry the original poster still hasn't received the answer he seeks about the cost of maintaining the program. A can of worms seems to have been opened. Good luck with the research at any rate.

Peace.
Art

 

[Buck]

Thank you.

The issues before the company appear to be financial. The cost of any program is in question. From Diversity to any maintenance or flight program in the system. Every item has been budgeted and it must be documented by someone somewhere. Real disclosure is the only option for American Airlines.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Buck, if you want an exact dollar cost, you're probably not going to get it. That's like asking how much it costs for Wal-Mart to make sure their people are friendly to customers...

You can quantify some of the direct costs, but there are far more indirect costs which could easily fall into one bucket or another.

Sorry if you don't like that answer, but it is what it is.

10 years ago, we still had employees thinking it was funny to put nooses into lockers.

We've made some progress since then, but we still have people who think it is acceptable to use the term nig[span]ger[/span].

Eliminating that type of behavior out of the workplace is worth it to me, and I'm not even a Democrat.

 

[RV4]

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On 2/26/2003 3:39:44 PM eolesen wrote:

10 years ago, we still had employees thinking it was funny to put nooses into lockers.

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[/blockquote]

10 years ago? This activity was happening much more recent than that!

What does a hanging noose mean anyway?

Wasn't that the old form of Capital Punishment for criminals?

Would everyone now be offended if someone were to hang lethal injection procedures on a wall?

If we are talking racial implications, it also wasn't that long ago that there were seperate bathrooms and drinking fountains, but I damn sure didn't have anything to do with such terrible activity.

Now, JOHNNIE COCHRAN is filing a legal complaint in Tulsa about Race Riots of 1921 and asking for hundreds of millions in damages.

That offends me!

So What! Should I request the company to ban the Tulsa World Newspaper so I that don't have to be subjected to such racial motivated activity?

Who the hell is propagating the continuation of racial division anyway? It isn't me.

 

[Bob Owens]

How much does the diversity program cost? Too much. There is unacceptable behavior and acceptable behavior. Obviously behavior that is meant to create a hostile workplace is unacceptable. The company had started a diversity program here in NY a while back but they made the sensible decision and scrapped it. Here we have Jews working aside Muslims, and Muslims with Hindus, Catholics with Protestants, Christians with Athiests, Homsexuals with Heterosexuals, even Democrats with Republicans! This does not mean that bigotry does not exist here, it does. However there is a reasonable amount of interaction between most people. Despite our differences we have a singular purpose for being here- to earn a living. People for the most part are smart enough to accept that we do not choose who the company hires and we have to work together. If they cant accept that then they should just quit. Diversity training is a waste of time and money. You cant teach away ignorance unless the intended pupil has a desire to learn. You can however establish codes of conduct and enforce them.

 

[The Dissident]

We really dont need diversity. That is just a tool of the left to seperate us from a common goal. What we really need is Unity. We are all Americans but I find it humorous that people are trying to get here from all over the world just to be an American while some of us over here are trying to seperate thamselves from being an American. Lets face it sometimes Im going to say things you are not gonna like and somethimes you are are gonna say somethings that I dont like but this is America and I get tired of the left using corporations to implement their polotical correctness agenda and making their employees fear for their job because of something they might have said. Alot of this behavior is thanks to the baby boomer anti-establishment berkly wannabees who have not experienced hardship in their lives and gave their children whatever their hearts desired. So now if they do not get what they want they throw a fit and blame somebody else until their demands are met. So instead of finding the reasons they didnt get the job such as lack of education or experience its not really their fault it must be because of the color of their skin or sexual preference so there gonna sue even though the real reason hey didnt get the job had nothing to do with it.They feel entitled to it just because they belong to a certain racial or social behavior group.I theink the diversity program in itself is racist because it values one group more than the other on the basis of skin color or sexual preference and this is dicriminatroy in itself!!!!!!!!!

 

[Buck]

Eric your answer is fine. Although this is part of the problem at American. We as labor are being asked to lower our wage and benefit package to compensate for a program or programs that cannot be quantified. Why should we beleive those in the company who cannot account for the programs they are responsible for?

Wow I cannot believe that Bob Owens and I agree on something.

The rules are in place let's drop any more expense for this and other programs. Mr. Carty says times are tough, they cannot just be tough for labor. As for the $2 billion the company has already reduced, there are those in TUL that are asking where?

 

[Connected1]

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On 2/26/2003 9:29:00 AM Buck wrote:

If the situation here at American Airlines is so dire, then any department that cannot quantify their budgets need to be removed.
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How about we give you a shot at quantifying? Here's a couple of examples:

1) You send 10 people from the DTW PM Shift to Rule 32 training in HDQ. On the same day, you get hit with some OSO that causes you to hold over 3 people from the AM shift for 2 hours each. Tell me, Buck, which caused the OT - the training or the OSO?

2) You send 10 people from the DTW PM Shift to Rule 32 training in HDQ. On the same day, you have 10 other people in deicing training. Since you have more holes than usual, you decide that you are going to fill 8 of them with OT. Again, Buck, which training caused the 8 heads to be called in - deicing or Rule 32?

Let's assume the impossible and say that you could identify exactly which OT hours were due to Rule 32 training. They wouldn't hit HR's budget anyway - they hit the station GM's budget. In the end, it's the GM that is responsible for scheduling training and spending OT - not HR's.

The only hard numbers that you're going to get out of HR on something like this is the salary dollars that are spent for the Diversity Strategies manager, a portion of the MD's salary, and whatever the per-employee training costs are at the Learning Center. Here's an informed estimate for 2003:

Costs:

* Diversity Strategies Manager - $80K salaries + benefits
* 1/5 MD - $20K salaries + benefits
* Diversity Training (none in 2003):
- Flagship University Instructors - $0
- Flagship University Hotel Rooms - $0
- Flagship University Meals - $0

Savings:

* Lawsuits Avoided - how can you know you have avoided a lawsuit if previous Rule 32 training prevents the offense from happening in the first place?

I'll tell you what... Let's just assume that we have avoided 0 lawsuits, and we'll remove that $0.1 MM per year in HR diversity costs from the $600+ MM per year that the TWU owes us in concessions. Deal?

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Wow! With logic like that. . .who needs a bankruptcy judge?

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 2/27/2003 3:30:19 PM Connected1 wrote:

[blockquote]
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On 2/26/2003 9:29:00 AM Buck wrote:

If the situation here at American Airlines is so dire, then any department that cannot quantify their budgets need to be removed.
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[/blockquote]
How about we give you a shot at quantifying? Here's a couple of examples:

1) You send 10 people from the DTW PM Shift to Rule 32 training in HDQ. On the same day, you get hit with some OSO that causes you to hold over 3 people from the AM shift for 2 hours each. Tell me, Buck, which caused the OT - the training or the OSO?

2) You send 10 people from the DTW PM Shift to Rule 32 training in HDQ. On the same day, you have 10 other people in deicing training. Since you have more holes than usual, you decide that you are going to fill 8 of them with OT. Again, Buck, which training caused the 8 heads to be called in - deicing or Rule 32?

Let's assume the impossible and say that you could identify exactly which OT hours were due to Rule 32 training. They wouldn't hit HR's budget anyway - they hit the station GM's budget. In the end, it's the GM that is responsible for scheduling training and spending OT - not HR's.

The only hard numbers that you're going to get out of HR on something like this is the salary dollars that are spent for the Diversity Strategies manager, a portion of the MD's salary, and whatever the per-employee training costs are at the Learning Center. Here's an informed estimate for 2003:

Costs:

* Diversity Strategies Manager - $80K salaries + benefits
* 1/5 MD - $20K salaries + benefits
* Diversity Training (none in 2003):
- Flagship University Instructors - $0
- Flagship University Hotel Rooms - $0
- Flagship University Meals - $0

Savings:

* Lawsuits Avoided - how can you know you have avoided a lawsuit if previous Rule 32 training prevents the offense from happening in the first place?

I'll tell you what... Let's just assume that we have avoided 0 lawsuits, and we'll remove that $0.1 MM per year in HR diversity costs from the $600+ MM per year that the TWU owes us in concessions. Deal?




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These items have nothing in common with the topic. Quantifying the budget for Diversity could be based on the previous year. That is how aircraft maintenance does their budgets. Even if items are spread out through the company they have to be referenced in the budget. If Diversity is allocated X dollars then they are responsible for that amount. This does not mean they cannot exceed or fall under the referenced number.

Why would the company be willing to pay overtime for Rule 32 training when they won't pay overtime for aircraft maintenance?

Flagship University? Is there a facility that is leased and not being used?

Using your logic, no lawsuits, no need for that part of the legal department.

Where do you get that the TWU owes you anything?

You are the advocate for not quantifying a budgeted item. It would seem that HR,management and you owe labor some explanations. Management of the airline is why it is failing. Labor has just had to go along because we are a necessary evil.

 

[will fix for food]

[blockquote]
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On 2/27/2003 3:30:19 PM Connected1 wrote:


I'll tell you what... Let's just assume that we have avoided 0 lawsuits, and we'll remove that $0.1 MM per year in HR diversity costs from the $600+ MM per year that the TWU owes us in concessions. Deal?




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OWES you?

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 2/28/2003 12:46:39 AM Buck wrote:

These items have nothing in common with the topic. Quantifying the budget for Diversity could be based on the previous year. That is how aircraft maintenance does their budgets.

[/blockquote]

Apples and oranges, Buck. We know what scheduled maintenance is going to be done at least a year in advance (dock plans go thru the end of 2004 right now), and can easily budget for parts/labor/out of service time. We know what the consumption of rotables is, and we know how many PS, A, and B checks will be done out on the line. We know that we need to have X mechanics available in each station based on the operating schedule.

Those are some of the easiest things to budget for.

We also can estimate the probability of unanticipated engine changes, tire changes, and major aircraft damages occurring, and probably can come up with an estimated cost for spares and overtime, but I don't believe maintenance actually budgets beyond that.

I don't know of any corporation which budgets for anticipated discrimination lawsuits, or for handling grievances specifically related to diversity. The person who handles an overtime grievance is the same person who would handle a diversity grievance. You simply budget to have a person available to work the grievances when they occur.

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On 2/28/2003 12:46:39 AM Buck wrote:

Even if items are spread out through the company they have to be referenced in the budget. If Diversity is allocated X dollars then they are responsible for that amount. This does not mean they cannot exceed or fall under the referenced number.

[/blockquote]

The way training like this works is that every station/shop gets X hours of training time per head built into their headcount. The number of hours varies based on the workgroup. Stuff that is one-time or initiative related does get broken out. Stuff that is considered normal overhead isn't segmented as much as you'd like, though.

Diversity training for management is typically done at the same time as other HR related training for attendance/lost time control, PPC, and other company rules/regs. Sure, you could break out a line item for each of those if you want to, but the fact is that those are all HR related, so why segment the budget? I know that maintenance takes it to an extreme. They budget and track everything down to the tail number that it is used on. It's a little harder to do that with HR.

In 10 years of preparing and reviewing budgets, I've found that little things tend to slip into budgets unnoticed. Big things don't.

If I have $2000 budgeted for SCSI hard drives, $200 for a monitor, $1200 for 2 CPU's, $900 for a RAID array, $1000 for a server chassis, $700 for redundant power supplies, and $500 for a battery backup, does it look better as 7 separate line items (which would fall into three different budget lines on three separate pages of my budget), or does it look better as a $6300 web server, which appears on one budget line on one page?


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On 2/28/2003 12:46:39 AM Buck wrote:

Flagship University? Is there a facility that is leased and not being used?

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It's not leased. It is owned. And it is a profit center for AMR, since it is used mostly by outside companies. Snap-On Tools, TSA, and even the APA have been regular tenants for a couple of years.

Buck, you're more than welcome to volunteer to sit thru a budget build. It has become a continual process the past two years...