Dja Notice

[FWAAA]

As they used to say here in Texas...We have the finest justice system that money can buy!

While I'm inclined to agree with you in other circumstances, the Vanguard district judge was in Kansas and the 10th Circuit panel that affirmed his award of summary judgment sits in Denver. AA won this one without homefield advantage. When you can win the away games, it's harder to convince people that you own the umps.

 

[eolesen]

Point of order on available DAL gates...


WN has 21 of the 32 gates. They're only using 14 of them. The other seven are inaccessable because WN is using the north concourse for admin and training. They've also erected a commisary building which blocks at least one of the gates, and it would need to be torn down for gates on that side of the concourse to be usable.

Six of the 32 gates are at the Lemon Terminal (on Lemmon, former Legend), and these are only capable of handling RJ's or big jets smaller than a B717. It can only gate four MD80 or B737s, and the City really
does not want to repoen the facility unless they have no choice.

So, only the remaining five gates are immediately usable -- CO's two and AA's three, which as already mentioned do not yet have jetbridges, but could be used for ramp level boarding if necessary while jetbridges are being installed (it's only about $70K to ship and install a bridge).

 

[wnbubbleboy]

Point of order on available DAL gates...
WN has 21 of the 32 gates. They're only using 14 of them. The other seven are inaccessable because WN is using the north concourse for admin and training. They've also erected a commisary building which blocks at least one of the gates, and it would need to be torn down for gates on that side of the concourse to be usable.

Six of the 32 gates are at the Lemon Terminal (on Lemmon, former Legend), and these are only capable of handling RJ's or big jets smaller than a B717. It can only gate four MD80 or B737s, and the City really
does not want to repoen the facility unless they have no choice.

So, only the remaining five gates are immediately usable -- CO's two and AA's three, which as already mentioned do not yet have jetbridges, but could be used for ramp level boarding if necessary while jetbridges are being installed (it's only about $70K to ship and install a bridge).

Training is gone they have moved to HDQ. Those gates are availible.

 

[Oneflyer]

Wouldn't it be great if a repeal meant that we actually lowered the barriers for LCCs like B6, FL, etc to provide service to the area, stimulate traffic, and reduce costs to the consumer?

Exactly what barriers are there now? FL has shown that it can compete sucessfully at ATL, ATA, Frontier, America West, Champion, Spirit, all already fly into DFW, there is an almost empty terminal for expansion (E). So what exactly are these barriers to entry?

 

[eolesen]

Training is gone they have moved to HDQ. Those gates are availible.

Available?

So, they've removed all the interior walls? If not, there's probably asbestos abatement required like there was when AA and CO renovated their gates a few years back.

And have they removed the commisary building, the parking lot on the east side, and all the chain link fence which goes 'round the parking lot and thru the aircraft parking positions?

That was all still in place the last time I drove thru DAL, so your definition of available and my definition of available must be a little different.

 

[mrman]

I never said that we didn't know how! I was just pointing out that moving flights to DAL would involve more than just dusting off the ticket counters. And, that is money we don't need to spend if we don't have to.

Since I live in Oak Cliff, and there is a slim chance that I might live long enough to get transferred back to DFW, flying out of DAL would suit me just fine. It's less than 5 miles from my condo to the DAL employee parking lot.

Actually American had a large ticket counter in the main terminal until 9/11. (Remember the Folker service to LAX and ORD. In addtion they went to battle, and lost, with WN with Austin MD80 service within the last 5 years They also were able to put up jet bridges pretty quick before the city of Dallas told them to take it down during the Legend days. Not only does AA have 3 gates, there are 6 empty Legend gates available and in the Master Plan

 

[corl737]

Did you notice that everytime there is a mention of the Wright Ammendment on the AA forum of this site, that all Wn posters come over and poo poo AA and DFW.
There must be such hatred for AA at WN that bells go off, so they all come to this board to spew there hate. They must really fear AA because they are so afraid to go head to head and fly from DFW.

We don't hate AA nor DFW. We hate FEDERAL legislation that blatantly interferes with the intent of the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act.

Read this excerpt from http://thomas.loc.gov and tell me if you don't agree that the Wright Amendment circumvents provisions (2), (3), (4) and (5) of this Act:

Airline Deregulation Act - Amends the Federal Aviation Act of 1958 to direct the Civil Aeronautics Board in the performance of its duties with respect to interstate and overseas air transportation to consider the following as being in accordance with the public convenience and necessity:
(1) the maintenance of safety as the highest priority in air commerce;
(2) placing maximum reliance on competition in providing air transportation services;
(3) the encouragement of air service at major urban areas through secondary or satellite airports;
(4) the avoidance of unreasonable industry concentration which would tend to allow one or more air carriers to unreasonably increase prices, reduce services, or exclude competition; and
(5) the encouragement of entry into air transportation markets by new air carriers, the encouragement of entry into additional markets by existing air carriers, and the continued strengthening of small air carriers.

 

[Ch. 12]

Exactly what barriers are there now? FL has shown that it can compete sucessfully at ATL, ATA, Frontier, America West, Champion, Spirit, all already fly into DFW, there is an almost empty terminal for expansion (E). So what exactly are these barriers to entry?

Perhaps that one carrier (which also happens to be the most aggressive of all in how it handles competition) handles 84% of the pax at DFW? Can't think of a better barrier than that.

What is the fear of repeal? You NEVER answer me, oneflyer.

 

[corl737]

Perhaps that one carrier (which also happens to be the most aggressive of all in how it handles competition) handles 84% of the pax at DFW? Can't think of a better barrier than that.

Ch. 12 -- did you read the column by Mitchell Schnurman, business columnist for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, titled "Why Airlines Avoid D/FW"? You can find it printed in its entirity at this link, but here's a great excerpt:

[....]

There's an elephant in D/FW's room, and nobody seems to want to talk about it: American Airlines and its subsidiary, American Eagle, have more than 800 daily departures and 84 percent of D/FW passengers.

Any carrier that wants a meaningful piece of the D/FW action has to take it out of American's hide. Good luck.

American's giant network covers about every significant destination, and its frequency swamps the number of flights at many other metropolitan airports combined.

That's great for travelers who covet nonstop connections, but it scares off new entries and keeps existing players from expanding in a big way.

Don't blame American for being a fierce competitor. But don't blame Southwest, either, for not wanting to step into American's cross-hairs.

Asking Southwest to move to D/FW, Southwest founder Herb Kelleher says, is like the spider asking the fly to lunch.

They won't be sharing dessert.

[....]
---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[DFWCC]

So now WN threatens to move if the WA is not repealed.
GO!
What do you think the rest of the metroplex should do? Should they bend over abd kiss WN's AAss like Dallas does? What if AA would move to STL. I know they had plans for a new term and a new runway. Which may even be under construction as I write. If AA were to move from DFW Oh! could I see the tears.
Loosing AA would be a far greater loss to North Tx than loosing WN.
So I say ADIOS WN.

 

[Ch. 12]

Ch. 12 -- did you read the column by Mitchell Schnurman, business columnist for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, titled "Why Airlines Avoid D/FW"? You can find it printed in its entirity at this link[/url

Corl737-

I did read it and felt that it stated - much better than I have been able to - what AMR-enthusiasts/protectionists try to ignore. THAT is what I mean when I talk about "cost of entry". Not the true cost of gates, etc. You and I understand this and I truly believe that others on these boards understand as well but they are dumbing down the argument to try to divert from the real issues. Thanks for posting a very well written article.

So now WN threatens to move if the WA is not repealed.
GO!
What do you think the rest of the metroplex should do? Should they bend over abd kiss WN's AAss like Dallas does? What if AA would move to STL. I know they had plans for a new term and a new runway. Which may even be under construction as I write. If AA were to move from DFW Oh! could I see the tears.
Loosing AA would be a far greater loss to North Tx than loosing WN.
So I say ADIOS WN.

Wow...and if B6 were to move HDQ to the moon...just think!!

 

[mrman]

So now WN threatens to move if the WA is not repealed.
GO!
What do you think the rest of the metroplex should do? Should they bend over abd kiss WN's AAss like Dallas does? What if AA would move to STL. I know they had plans for a new term and a new runway. Which may even be under construction as I write. If AA were to move from DFW Oh! could I see the tears.
Loosing AA would be a far greater loss to North Tx than loosing WN.
So I say ADIOS WN.

WN is one Dallas' largest tax base. Their headquarters is located in the city of Dallas, Maintenance hanger, most of the East side of Love field property is owned by Wn. In addtion all of WN's planes reside in Dallas for property taxes. WN could legally overnight have those planes taxed in Houston instead. Not to mention headquarter employees, flight attendant base and pilot base. Be careful for what you wish for.

 

[FWAAA]

Wow...and if B6 were to move HDQ to the moon...just think!!

If only AA's competitors would simply move away! What a wonderful world it would be!

 

[DFWCC]

What is WN afraid of? DFW airport board had and still is offering a $22,000,000 move in bonus to WN. Free gate space for a yr. So AA's payment for gate space will help pay for WN's free gate space.
What is WN afraid of? ... COMPETITION ?

 

[FWAAA]

What is WN afraid of? DFW airport board had and still is offering a $22,000,000 move in bonus to WN. Free gate space for a yr. So AA's payment for gate space will help pay for WN's free gate space.
What is WN afraid of? ... COMPETITION ?

Maybe WN is afraid of competition at DFW, but it's probably the high costs that scare them the most. When DL announced their DFW hub drawdown last year, they said that the move would save DL over $35 million a year in rent and landing fees. WN pays DAL less than $2 million in rent and landing fees. Sure, DFW offered to send the rent check to AA for one year, but long-term, the move would be very costly.

Easy to say to Southwest - "You want to fly anywhere you want from the metroplex? Then adopt AA's high DFW cost structure."

I don't blame WN for flipping the middle finger at that ridiculous suggestion.

DFW has teamed up with AA to build a very expensive airport at DFW, and WN and its low-rent customers don't feel they need an expensive facility.