Kev3188
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No they're not.WorldTraveler said:
If you were, you wouldn't continue to post things that aren't true.
DL expands SEA further with SEA-SFO flights
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WorldTraveler
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DL pilots LOST their pension in BK... no other group, including PMNW pilots lost their pension.
DL employees are smart enough to realize that losing your pension and having pay rates for all US legacy carrier pilots that is well above the limits of the PBGC hit pilots FAR HARDER than other employee groups.
In contrast, UA and US terminated all of their company sponsored pensions in BK. How have their employees fared with the replacement?
If you find DL employees who were hired before 2005 are willing to give up their pensions in order for higher benefits, let me know.
I can assure you that there are alot of DL pilots who would love to have their terminated pension benefits back - it amounted to tens of thousands of dollars per employee for many of them.
But since DL CAN'T terminate its frozen pensions at this point and is in fact paying EXTRA to accelerate its funding for its frozen pensions, it's a red herring.
DL employees are smart enough to realize that losing your pension and having pay rates for all US legacy carrier pilots that is well above the limits of the PBGC hit pilots FAR HARDER than other employee groups.
In contrast, UA and US terminated all of their company sponsored pensions in BK. How have their employees fared with the replacement?
If you find DL employees who were hired before 2005 are willing to give up their pensions in order for higher benefits, let me know.
I can assure you that there are alot of DL pilots who would love to have their terminated pension benefits back - it amounted to tens of thousands of dollars per employee for many of them.
But since DL CAN'T terminate its frozen pensions at this point and is in fact paying EXTRA to accelerate its funding for its frozen pensions, it's a red herring.
Terminated and Frozen are both pension losses.
With terminated the PBGC takes over the pension and gets equity in the company that distress terminated the pension and the amount you can get can be reduced, especially for pilots.
Frozen means you dont acrrue any future benefits, so that is still a loss of pension.
So dont say the pilots were the only one's to lose a pension, as so did the non-union employees at DL have their pension frozen, which is a reduction in benefits also.
And dont forget the Pilots negotiated a replacement plan, they had a say in what happened, did the non-union have that same choice?
With terminated the PBGC takes over the pension and gets equity in the company that distress terminated the pension and the amount you can get can be reduced, especially for pilots.
Frozen means you dont acrrue any future benefits, so that is still a loss of pension.
So dont say the pilots were the only one's to lose a pension, as so did the non-union employees at DL have their pension frozen, which is a reduction in benefits also.
And dont forget the Pilots negotiated a replacement plan, they had a say in what happened, did the non-union have that same choice?
robbedagain
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let me help answer that very last question 700 we would not want mr delta preacher spokesman to miss that now do we?? 🙂
NO NO NO THEY DID NOT HAVE A SAY
NO NO NO THEY DID NOT HAVE A SAY
WorldTraveler
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Both scenarios involve future losses.
a frozen pension DOES NOT necessarily mean a loss in existing benefits. What DL and NW employees had in earned benefits is still the same. DL and NW's rules for disbursing pension benefits under their frozen plans is more generous (earlier age for one) than what the PBGC allows.
Pilots lost billions of dollars in EARNED - not future - benefits. They received equity but it came nowhere close to the amount of actual benefits they lost.
If you think pilots came out as good as non-pilot personnel at any airline, you truly don't understand the situation.
Pilots didn't negotiate to have their pension terminated. They negotiated a replacement that is in line with what other pilots get. All pilot groups at US airlines earn different levels of post-retirement benefits that non-pilot personnel.
Again, the IAM loves to try to create pilot salary envy but show me any US legacy airline (esp. one the IAM represents) where non-pilot employees get the same pension benefits as pilot employees.
a frozen pension DOES NOT necessarily mean a loss in existing benefits. What DL and NW employees had in earned benefits is still the same. DL and NW's rules for disbursing pension benefits under their frozen plans is more generous (earlier age for one) than what the PBGC allows.
Pilots lost billions of dollars in EARNED - not future - benefits. They received equity but it came nowhere close to the amount of actual benefits they lost.
If you think pilots came out as good as non-pilot personnel at any airline, you truly don't understand the situation.
Pilots didn't negotiate to have their pension terminated. They negotiated a replacement that is in line with what other pilots get. All pilot groups at US airlines earn different levels of post-retirement benefits that non-pilot personnel.
Again, the IAM loves to try to create pilot salary envy but show me any US legacy airline (esp. one the IAM represents) where non-pilot employees get the same pension benefits as pilot employees.
WorldTraveler
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robbedagain said:
did your father or mother drop you at birth, robbed? or was it the nurse or doctor.
are you completely incapable of trying to keep the conversation civil?
grow up
No one including the IAM has stated that, so why are deliberately posting incorrect and inaccurate information?
Both groups lost their pension one was terminated and others were frozen.
The pilots will still get the PBGC max and they negotiated a nice lucrative replacement plan, did the non-union negotiate anything with Delta in regard to pensions?
Both groups lost their pension one was terminated and others were frozen.
The pilots will still get the PBGC max and they negotiated a nice lucrative replacement plan, did the non-union negotiate anything with Delta in regard to pensions?
robbedagain
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WHY don't you grow up and stop being the delta spokesman of the airline world..
WorldTraveler
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why can't you accept that I am not the Delta spokesman?
You are the one who has thrown that label out.
I have never said I speak for DL. All I have ever done is related my personal conversations with some DL employees - that hardly makes me a spokesman.
Learn to accept that other people are going to speak.... you have to share the platform with them.
You are the one who has thrown that label out.
I have never said I speak for DL. All I have ever done is related my personal conversations with some DL employees - that hardly makes me a spokesman.
Learn to accept that other people are going to speak.... you have to share the platform with them.
Kev3188
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Any "envy" in the discussion revolves around the idea that both the pilot & dispatcher groups have agency. Nobody else on the property has the same say in the direction of their career(s).WorldTraveler said:
Soooo, in one sentence you infer someone has suffered a head injury, and in the next tell them to grow up?WorldTraveler said:
Conflicted much?
WorldTraveler
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I am resorting to the same level that he is using. If he doesn't want to grow up, then I will treat him accordingly.
There is no faith system that says that someone should be entitled to continue to harm other people because someone else has a different faith system that is based on forgiveness.
if robbed or anyone else wants to be treated like an adult, he has to demonstrate he wants it.
As with many things, 700, you pick and choose what you want to believe. There is no faith that provides the hodge podge of ideas that you think you should be entitled to use, including that you expect other people to forgive you but you are unwilling to admit you are wrong or ask forgiveness of others.
Not sure what any of this has to do with SEA but US has added several new routes from PHL and CLT
http://airlineroute.net/2014/03/08/us-phlclt-s14/
the same site has not yet reported AS' frequency reductions or UA's withdrawal from SEA-ANC
There is no faith system that says that someone should be entitled to continue to harm other people because someone else has a different faith system that is based on forgiveness.
if robbed or anyone else wants to be treated like an adult, he has to demonstrate he wants it.
As with many things, 700, you pick and choose what you want to believe. There is no faith that provides the hodge podge of ideas that you think you should be entitled to use, including that you expect other people to forgive you but you are unwilling to admit you are wrong or ask forgiveness of others.
Not sure what any of this has to do with SEA but US has added several new routes from PHL and CLT
http://airlineroute.net/2014/03/08/us-phlclt-s14/
the same site has not yet reported AS' frequency reductions or UA's withdrawal from SEA-ANC
robbedagain
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last time I checked being a 36 yr old is an adult and being an active member in the airline industry and in the iam hardly qualifies me as being anything but an adult? I look at the whole pic of things and come to my conclusion and that includes lookin at data
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