FlyUs
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- Jul 28, 2004
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DL transatlantic routes perform well when compared with others
- Thread starter WorldTraveler
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OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #17
Tech, mags, and Deleted,
It only goes to show the limits of your intellectual capacity when you have to stoop to lambasting individual personalities in the absence of your ability to post anything worthwhile. You obviously are so quick to post that you cannot or will not read and digest what has been posted, including the answer to why DL did not operate their 767s completely in int'l service 5 years. Also, we refers to analysis of DOT data, something you could review if you were capable of doing so. You must be pitifully unhappy people if all you can do is attack other people; I truly hope somewhere that you can find the meaning and purpose in life that you obviously lack. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I do expect you to demonstrate some level of decency that is common to the human existence. In my optimism for life, I obviously do not fully appreciate the depravity to which some people can stoop.
I never said UA or any carrier had to serve every region of the world from every city in the US. I am pointing out that UA, which still bills itself as offering worldwide service, in fact is now number 4 in market share in Europe and Latin America despite being the #2 airline in total revenue and ASMs. # 2 in a region I could understand but #4 in an entire region with very little capacity to grow is not leadership or the foundation for a sound profitable future. No matter how much you try and spin it, UA has lost its ability to be a global worldwide airline outside of Asia. CO is well on its way to having a more balanced international route system than UA while DL and AA will dominate at least one region of the world and be #2 in another region. That is network leadership.
However, I digress. You seem hellbent on wanting to reduce this to a UA vs. DL mudslinging contest. While you are obviously too defensive and dense to understand the scope of UA's problems, I would like to hope there are people in Chicago that have a plan for addressing these issues. However, without a significant infusion of capacity, UA is pretty hard pressed to address the problem because it gave up a fairly significant amount of its international fleet in BK.
My point is and will continue to be that DL will restructure more successfully than any other US airline ever has. You are free to disagree with that but your credibility will be greatly enhanced if you can use facts instead of personal attacks. We will see in not very many months how successful DL will be along with the pilot agreement that they will negotiate.
It only goes to show the limits of your intellectual capacity when you have to stoop to lambasting individual personalities in the absence of your ability to post anything worthwhile. You obviously are so quick to post that you cannot or will not read and digest what has been posted, including the answer to why DL did not operate their 767s completely in int'l service 5 years. Also, we refers to analysis of DOT data, something you could review if you were capable of doing so. You must be pitifully unhappy people if all you can do is attack other people; I truly hope somewhere that you can find the meaning and purpose in life that you obviously lack. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I do expect you to demonstrate some level of decency that is common to the human existence. In my optimism for life, I obviously do not fully appreciate the depravity to which some people can stoop.
I never said UA or any carrier had to serve every region of the world from every city in the US. I am pointing out that UA, which still bills itself as offering worldwide service, in fact is now number 4 in market share in Europe and Latin America despite being the #2 airline in total revenue and ASMs. # 2 in a region I could understand but #4 in an entire region with very little capacity to grow is not leadership or the foundation for a sound profitable future. No matter how much you try and spin it, UA has lost its ability to be a global worldwide airline outside of Asia. CO is well on its way to having a more balanced international route system than UA while DL and AA will dominate at least one region of the world and be #2 in another region. That is network leadership.
However, I digress. You seem hellbent on wanting to reduce this to a UA vs. DL mudslinging contest. While you are obviously too defensive and dense to understand the scope of UA's problems, I would like to hope there are people in Chicago that have a plan for addressing these issues. However, without a significant infusion of capacity, UA is pretty hard pressed to address the problem because it gave up a fairly significant amount of its international fleet in BK.
My point is and will continue to be that DL will restructure more successfully than any other US airline ever has. You are free to disagree with that but your credibility will be greatly enhanced if you can use facts instead of personal attacks. We will see in not very many months how successful DL will be along with the pilot agreement that they will negotiate.
UA is weak from JFK to LHR because they have only one daily 777, they have this flight because no other Star Alliance airline flies the route. Virgin Atlantic, BA & AA all have multiple flights daily thus they have a premuim.
UA's strength to LHR is from IAD on the east coast, ORD and LAX & SFO in the west coast. From those four cities they have muliple flights to LHR with 777 and some(but few )747-400.
DL should stop complaining about flying to London from JFK and fly to Stansted, if none is available, buy Max Jet for its route authority to STN and then operate the route.
UA's strength to LHR is from IAD on the east coast, ORD and LAX & SFO in the west coast. From those four cities they have muliple flights to LHR with 777 and some(but few )747-400.
DL should stop complaining about flying to London from JFK and fly to Stansted, if none is available, buy Max Jet for its route authority to STN and then operate the route.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #19
DL doesn't need to buy Maxjet to fly to STN. You are right that UA is not particularly strong in NYC as a whole and IAD is their best spot on the East Coast.
I do think DL will resolve the London issue in the not too distant future one way or the other. It could well be that Eos and Maxjet will help build credibility to STN. LGW was considered a castoff almost 30 years ago when the only opportunities for expansion to London were via LGW and the airlines took it then. But LGW still has plenty of capacity available. the only question is whether the treaty would permit to fly to LGW from the cities DL wants to serve - and there have been enough people to weigh in on the issue with no one capable of saying with any degree of certainty whether DL could fly JFKLGW particularly. It would probably take an airline network executive or a DOT person to say for sure and I don't think any of those are lurking these birds.
Good to see you over here, 777. Stop by often.
I do think DL will resolve the London issue in the not too distant future one way or the other. It could well be that Eos and Maxjet will help build credibility to STN. LGW was considered a castoff almost 30 years ago when the only opportunities for expansion to London were via LGW and the airlines took it then. But LGW still has plenty of capacity available. the only question is whether the treaty would permit to fly to LGW from the cities DL wants to serve - and there have been enough people to weigh in on the issue with no one capable of saying with any degree of certainty whether DL could fly JFKLGW particularly. It would probably take an airline network executive or a DOT person to say for sure and I don't think any of those are lurking these birds.
Good to see you over here, 777. Stop by often.
Yeah. Bad, bad Tech, mags, and Deleted. Stop bringing up UA all the time in threads about DL.
WT, don't you have a job you have to occassionally attend to, or a family, or a dog to walk, or something? Your obsession -- with and doom-and-gloom scenarios about -- UA has now surpassed that of a certain USAirways Captain (who, by the way, has mysteriously disappeared -- perhaps into a mental health institution?).
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #21
I work on the ramp for UA at ORD on 3rd shift which leaves me plenty of time to walk the dog between my philosophizing and contributions to leading business journals worldwide.
That poor captain is MIA because he turned out to be wrong. I'm still here because I'm right. And my mental, physical, and spiritual health is in very good shape. Humble, no. Right, yes. How about you?
That poor captain is MIA because he turned out to be wrong. I'm still here because I'm right. And my mental, physical, and spiritual health is in very good shape. Humble, no. Right, yes. How about you?
It's good to see that you actually have a sense of humor. You could have used it in your post prior to this one.I work on the ramp for UA at ORD on 3rd shift which leaves me plenty of time to walk the dog between my philosophizing and contributions to leading business journals worldwide.
That poor captain is MIA because he turned out to be wrong. I'm still here because I'm right. And my mental, physical, and spiritual health is in very good shape. Humble, no. Right, yes. How about you?
Really, your instistance that yours is bigger than mine gets a little tiring. It's great that you're loyal to DL; just don't let it cloud your judgment.
Why is DL stopping in Dakar, on the ATL JHB route ?
If it's because the 767-300/400 does'nt have the range, then WHY is'nt a 777 on that route ?
NH/BB's
If it's because the 767-300/400 does'nt have the range, then WHY is'nt a 777 on that route ?
NH/BB's
The reason that you get such a strong response to your opinions is that you make such objectively wrong conclusions like this one. I don't see how you can say that DL "dominates" Europe with only a plurality of a very competitive market. CO has "network leadership" -- with less than 20 777s? In my opinion, CO, DL and even AA would gladly trade international routes with UA. They wouldn't even think twice. UA has many problems, but its international route network is not one of them.
I work on the ramp for UA at ORD on 3rd shift which leaves me plenty of time to walk the dog between my philosophizing and contributions to leading business journals worldwide.
That poor captain is MIA because he turned out to be wrong. I'm still here because I'm right. And my mental, physical, and spiritual health is in very good shape. Humble, no. Right, yes. How about you?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WT,
Are you SERIOUS about YOU/ORD + UA ??????????????
NH/BB's
Give me a break you POC. You did nothing but attack the UAL people during our BK and there is absolutely NO WAY we are now going to turn the other cheek while you prance around cheerleading for Delta now that they are the weakest link of all the majors. Seeing that you attacked constantly, does that make you pitifully unhappy or do you flip flop on this issue too? :down:
Bears, Delta is planning to fly that route with a 777, but the 772ER isn't capable of flying it nonstop. B)
I think the 772LR could make it, but there aren't too many of them in service, and none at DL.
Only wish that RR made a 100k lb engine - then maybe AA might buy some.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Thread Starter
- #29
TechBoy,
I found this statement on the previously referenced post by you insightful.
"UA's entire European operation is designed with Star in mind and is focused on pumping traffic through Star hubs on both sides of the Atlantic."
It is not a I'm bigger than you argument. It is an argument that DL is aggressively building its international route system as is CO and to a lesser extent AA. UA is only growing in Asia and is now the #4 US carrier to both Europe and Latin America. UA’s vaunted position as an international leader is simply not supportable by the size of its current international network outside of Asia or the number of destinations it serves.
And… analysts are seeing huge recovery in the domestic arena which means more heavily weighted domestic carriers will see the biggest bump this summer. Of course, summer is almost always strong for int’l carriers so no one will lose but the recovery will be stronger for domestic carriers.
"Domestic unit revenues in February were double that of international routes," said Goldman Sachs analyst Glenn Engel. "The relative strength of domestic favors low fare carriers, but the momentum in business travel favors legacy airlines."
I found this statement on the previously referenced post by you insightful.
"UA's entire European operation is designed with Star in mind and is focused on pumping traffic through Star hubs on both sides of the Atlantic."
It is not a I'm bigger than you argument. It is an argument that DL is aggressively building its international route system as is CO and to a lesser extent AA. UA is only growing in Asia and is now the #4 US carrier to both Europe and Latin America. UA’s vaunted position as an international leader is simply not supportable by the size of its current international network outside of Asia or the number of destinations it serves.
And… analysts are seeing huge recovery in the domestic arena which means more heavily weighted domestic carriers will see the biggest bump this summer. Of course, summer is almost always strong for int’l carriers so no one will lose but the recovery will be stronger for domestic carriers.
"Domestic unit revenues in February were double that of international routes," said Goldman Sachs analyst Glenn Engel. "The relative strength of domestic favors low fare carriers, but the momentum in business travel favors legacy airlines."
Yet through all the bs from WT, one fact remains the same. United's stock is over $40 and Delta's is under $1.00.
Like a previous poster stated, ALL legacy carriers would trade ALL their routes to have United's routes. So regardless of YOUR opinion, the fact remains that United has the BETTER route structure and therefore are the International Leader.
Or to make this longer (which must be some sort of Napolean issue that WT has) more people can get more places when they fly on United and use the unsurpassed alliances with it. United can get EVERYWHERE in Latin America and Europe either on their metal or through their alliances. Delta on the other hand still can't reach the places that United already is, either on their metal or through a code share. Take it to the bank, United has WAY MORE REACH than Delta.
Like a previous poster stated, ALL legacy carriers would trade ALL their routes to have United's routes. So regardless of YOUR opinion, the fact remains that United has the BETTER route structure and therefore are the International Leader.
Or to make this longer (which must be some sort of Napolean issue that WT has) more people can get more places when they fly on United and use the unsurpassed alliances with it. United can get EVERYWHERE in Latin America and Europe either on their metal or through their alliances. Delta on the other hand still can't reach the places that United already is, either on their metal or through a code share. Take it to the bank, United has WAY MORE REACH than Delta.
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