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Does Delta still have NWA scabs working?

where did I ever advocate that people not return lost items?

As if that is supposed to provide justification for passing along information that you aren't even sure is accurate, on top of being unwilling to say that you really do support the practice of "outing" someone on an internet chat forum who never participated in one?

I'm sure there are people who would find plenty of justification for putting your mugshot next to a picture of your most recent Delta non-rev boarding card or active flight listings and your activity on the internet.

You know, that kind of just casual connection of information.

Scruples - or the lack thereof - can run both ways. AKA he who lives by the sword just might....

BTW, don't forget to share with us YOUR NAME and LOCATION.
 
you forgot this part:

BTW, don't forget to share with us YOUR NAME and LOCATION.

IOW it is ok in your book to publish someone else's personal information on the internet - or replicate the information that someone else has collected even if you don't even know if it is true - but you expect your privacy to be maintained while you hide behind the anonymity of a computer screen?

sorry, but that is hypocrisy.

There are other people who apparently have more scruples than you do and respect your privacy even if you won't do the same for others.

 
What happened at NW before the merger has nothing to do with Delta. If NW hired back mechanics that crossed the picket line, it happened on their watch. No use trying to make an issue out of a non issue, concerning scabs from NW, that work at Delta !
Your union, at the time, with no backing from the IAM, were not able to do anything about it, so drop it, already !

Next !
 
There are several important points to discuss in the posts above.
First, I have never made any statement about the quality of work that the “scabs” did at NW. In fact, there is no doubt based on the very lengthy thread on this forum that NW was being held together by bailing wire in the aftermath of the AMFA lockout. But it is impossible to accurately and truthfully argue that the reason for NW’s maintenance problems was the caliber of the mechanics that NW hired post AMFA. Given that NW fired 5000 workers and then hired 1000 in their place who were not familiar with NW’s procedures or fleet or operation should raise all kinds of alarms – and the fact that NW was able to keep the airline operation without more involvement from the FAA is more than a bit concerning…. But that chapter is over and no one has yet to prove that the mechanics were incompetent any more than can be argued that they were improperly trained and prepared to handle the work which NW gave them. If they are really incompetent mechanics and still work for DL, they need to be removed. But given that the “scabs” could make up as much as 10% of DL’s maintenance workforce, it is impossible to believe they could all be incompetent or else the impact on DL today would be obvious and enormous.

Evidently, you didn’t pay attention.
Airline Safety: A Whistleblower's Tale


After mechanics at Northwest Airlines went out on strike on Aug. 20, 2005, Federal Aviation Administration safety inspector Mark Lund began to see troubling signs. One replacement mechanic didn't know how to test an engine. Another couldn't close a cabin door. Many did not seem properly trained. In Lund's view, their inexperience resulted in dangerous mistakes. One DC-10, for example, had a broken lavatory duct that allowed human waste to spill onto vital navigation equipment. The leak developed during a flight from Amsterdam to Minneapolis. Northwest (NWA) planned to let the plane continue on to Honolulu with the perilous and putrid problem unfixed—until one of Lund's fellow safety inspectors in Minneapolis intervened.
Just two days after the strike began, Lund fired off a "safety recommendation for accident prevention" letter to his supervisors and to FAA headquarters in Washington. It was the loudest alarm he had the authority to ring. Claiming that "a situation exists that jeopardizes life," Lund proposed cutting back on Northwest's flight schedule until mechanics and inspectors could do their job "without error." But instead of taking harsh action against the airline, the agency punished him. On Aug. 29, Lund's supervisors confiscated the badge that gave him access to Northwest's facilities and gave him a desk job. That happened to be the same day the airline sent a letter to the FAA complaining about Lund's allegedly disruptive and unprofessional conduct. The FAA says it treated Lund fairly.
Find out what happened to Mark Lund years later.

Maybe the scabs are better trained now but there was a period that they we not. Still scabs though...

Part One of ?
😛
 
Second, it is hardly a badge of courage to argue that AMFA obtained huge gains in pay in 2000 only to have the company turn its focus on eliminating the union in the years that followed.

Maybe. But that’s your opinion. The AMFA contract set a higher bar for M&R pay and benefits. The company was already focused on eliminating them. AMFA was in the perfect storm (along with the rest of the industry). NWA was the only carrier to use the SARS excuse for force majeure. As always, industry contracts circumvent union contracts. So much for equal footing, eh?

In fact, UA’s ALPA unit made the same claims after their summer of hell in which they promised to squeeze every egg out of the goose. UA ended up becoming one of the first major airlines to file for BK post 9/11, stayed in BK longer than any other airline in US history, and took back every bit ALPA gained and more. To add insult to injury and prove that UA mgmt would never agree to a deal with UA ALPA that allowed UA pilots to lead the industry in a contract, UA mgmt was determined to drive home the point in the last contract that UA’s pilot contract would be one year behind DL’s. UA pilots may have won the battle but they paid a very high price for over 10 years and they won’t be in a position to even try to recover a position of pay leadership for at least 15 years after that contract “win” in 2000.

Now you are talking apples and oranges. UAL employees entered into a stock ownership scheme. At the beginning of this debacle, United promised leading industry contracts at the end of the eflop to all esop members. At the end of the eflop, management decided not to negotiate industry leading contracts but managed to award the BOD and executives’ pay raises and bonuses. IIRC UA ALPA only wanted Delta + 1%. The rest of the unions wanted ‘pay parity’. The IAM went to the PEB and was awarded a short lived industry leading contract. The fact is the golden goose died with the rest of the industry and the ‘working folk’ are trying to choke the chicken… 😛


NW mgmt decided that AMFA may have won the battle but NW was going to win the war – and NW was determined to dismantle AMFA which NW did.


NW spent far more in breaking AMFA (with the help of gooberment) than they would have spent working with AMFA. Every negotiation was a moving target, moving lower of course. How can someone accept that?
Part 2 of ?
 
Third, far too few people are willing to acknowledge that labor-mgmt relations are high-stakes games of strategy and tenacity which mgmt is just as capable of winning as labor. Labor in the airline industry is far too accustomed to being able to demand pay raises, go thru the process, and then strike to achieve what they want; in fact, there was little risk in striking because mgmt would likely cave to some degree at some point, just like what UA mgmt did w/ their pilots. DL played hardball with OH pilots who had aspirations of being paid much higher up the scale and OH never was the same again and ultimately was dismantled. In the OH and UA pilot situations and with NW/AMFA, mgmt came back with very strong responses which ultimately cost labor far more than what they had gained or attempted to gain. Labor has to provide a convincing argument to members/potential or actual AND be willing to take on mgmt who increasingly has tools and strategies that have been very capable at stifling any gains labor might make. It is precisely because labor’s attempts to win against mgmt in the airline industry have a pretty poor track record over the past decade plus that few employees real believe that labor can deliver what it promises – if labor is even willing to make bold promises.


In today’s world, management has the upper hand. Labor has no recourse. Look at the AA BK. $4 Billion in cash and filed BK. Only reason was to break labor contracts. Man, wish I could do that.

The simple fact is that mgmt in the US hates labor and will do anything they can to ensure labor makes as few gains as possible. That type of system does not exist to the same degree but that is the environment the US has created for business.

I agree with that. Mgmt. Hates labor and labor has no chance. Let them eat cake!

DL and other heavily non-union employers have figured out how to create successful businesses outside of the grip of labor. The fact that many non-union airlines are some of the strongest in their particular sector of the industry says that those companies know exactly how to use the assets they have, including their non-union status which their employees are not willing to change.


DL and other heavily non-union employers have schemed to give pay and benefits to their employees to match or exceed unionized labor. We get that. Now why would they be so benevolent to do such a human act? Collusion? Keep your non-unionized work force happy until you can lay the hammer down? No, say it isn’t so. Surely good Merikan industries would not capitalize on their employees and beat them into submission.




Fourth, I have absolutely no problem with labor trying to improve the lot of Americans – but it is an economic principle that it becomes harder and harder to make gains when the bar has already been moved fairly high which is what the labor movement did for American workers over 50 years. Airline workers are still paid well above average compared to other industries and it is not realistic to think that those gains can be maintained. Every long-lived carrier in the airline industry has had to pull back on the wage and benefits it once offered, and that is most recently happening at WN. Labor’s biggest gains came at a lower point in the economic cycle and on a global scale, organized labor still has the opportunity to move a lot of people to higher standards of living and safer working conditions; the Bangladesh clothing factory accident was a reminder not only of how bad working conditions are for many people in the world but that sadly, it really hasn’t been that long that working conditions were the same even in the countries that are now called “developed.”

Blah Blah Blah…

Fifth, I find it highly hypocritical that a forum such as this that is based upon the notion of anonymity for its members so they can rail against their employers/former employers find it the least bit acceptable to publish the names of real people who happened to legally step into an economic opportunity even if some don’t like it. Perhaps it should be equally fair to have a website that includes the names, pictures, and employment situations of those who participate in airline chat forums. After all, publishing someone’s name as a “scab” based on one’s sense of the injustice of the economic situation in which the “scabs” profited is no different than someone else’s sense that those who accept pay and benefits from a company and then criticize that company should be willing to do so publicly and not behind the cloak of anonymity – or those people can accept the injustice of publishing anyone’s name for any reason. (and for the record I have no intention of revealing anything about anyone here but I sure as heck will note the hypocrisy involved based on who benefits.)

When I walked the IAM/EAL and AMFA/NWA picket lines, my ‘name’ was pretty much out there along with my presence. Don’t know what else you need, but there are scabs here that post anonymously as well. If you would like to keep everything on the up-n-up, put their names up and I will gladly join.
Start you own Facebook page. I’ll join…
Last I looked, you are pretty anonymous.


Finally, the simple fact is that AMFA made a calculated decision (or it should have been) to push for gains against NW. NW aggressively responded and AMFA lost. Where is the sense of injustice against the labor leaders who cost thousands of employees their jobs and undoubtedly there were marriages that crumbled and houses and cars that got repossessed in the process? I’m sure some of those people like Q did land on their feet again and I’m glad for them. I bought a house from a realtor that was a former Eastern employee who was active in their labor movement; she was a darned good realtor but bore the scars for EA’s labor movement for years (and incidentally that person and I maintained contact and friendship long after our professional encounter.)


What a roid! Union leadership tried to save jobs. Takes two sweat cheeks and NWA wasn’t buying.

Laying the blame at the feet of those who walked into a legal economic opportunity because a few labor leaders seriously miscalculated the challenge they faced has got to rank as one of the most cowardly approaches to personal responsibility I can think of.


HA! you corporate types eat their young. Try another ethics class, evidently the first one didn’t take!

B) xUT
 
What happened at NW before the merger has nothing to do with Delta. If NW hired back mechanics that crossed the picket line, it happened on their watch. No use trying to make an issue out of a non issue, concerning scabs from NW, that work at Delta !
Your union, at the time, with no backing from the IAM, were not able to do anything about it, so drop it, already !

Next !

The simple fact is that mgmt in the US hates labor and will do anything they can to ensure labor makes as few gains as possible. That type of system does not exist to the same degree but that is the environment the US has created for business.

I agree with that. Mgmt. Hates labor and labor has no chance. Let them eat cake!

Did you miss that or just too stupid to realize it?
B) xUT
 
It may very well be true that the replacement mechanics that NW hired were not properly trained and they might not have been the sharpest tacks in the desk drawer when NW hired them. I don’t know and don’t doubt but I also don’t really care. It was NW’s decision to sack their entire maintenance group and replace them and what NW did was their business to figure out.

My concern came the moment those employees became DL employees. If they were not competent, DL either did a pretty good job of getting them trained or perhaps there were other issues that were at play that were resolved over time; NW’s operation ran far better a couple of years after the lockout than it did when it started so NW figured out a lot of its own problems. They can’t possibly be as bad now as they were before or the effect on DL’s operation would be apparent – and it simply isn’t there.

But let me let you and other labor supporters in a little info: DL employees and supporters absolutely detest the rancorous, contentious environment that exists in many airline labor-mgmt relationships. DL employees may want some of the things that unions can offer but they absolutely want nothing to do with the difficult relations that other airlines have had with their employee groups and they absolutely want nothing to do with the labor problems other airlines have had. DL employees aren’t willing to trade away prosperity that has come through cooperation for a few economic crumbs. Many of you seem to forget that the labor problems at Eastern played out on Delta’s doorstep – in many cases, right across the tarmac of many airports. DL employees know full well how destructive bad labor relations are to individual careers.
When people try to bring up the AMFA strike again and somehow attach the problem to DL or drag other airline’s labor problems over to DL, I can absolutely assure you that many DL employees react not much differently than a cat whose hair stands up on end. If the labor movement has any desire to ever win over DL employees, it needs to get past the contentious form of relationships that exist at so many carriers. The whole notion of a scab list is nothing more than the same failed mindset that hasn’t worked at other airlines and won’t convince DL employees there is anything that they want.

As much as it slays you to admit it, there are companies that pay their employees well and give them decent benefits because those companies realize that happy employees take care of the company. Good businesses are good because all parties win and not because someone has managed to screw someone else out of something. Labor will never understand the concept of win-win given their jaded sense that “someone has got to lose.”

This board prides itself in anonymity and SELF-DISCLOSURE. When one side or party decides to walk away from the principles that have been accepted, you can’t expect the rest of the building to stay intact.

HA! you corporate types eat their young. Try another ethics class, evidently the first one didn’t take!

absolutely priceless - and hypocritical - and completely reinforced by this discussion in which you and others are trying to justify scab lists.
 
Scab lists don't need to be justified. They are what they are: a list of scum who I don't want to work with, and I would like to know who thy are so I can avoid them. These scumbags accepted the scab jobs knowing full well that they would make it on a list, and also carry the stigma of being a scab the rest of their career. The same way that any of the honorable knew that leaving work to walk the picket line could be the last time they were employed there.
 
It wasnt a lockout, it was a strike, come on WT, educate yourself.
 
If quality maintenance- and a high performing workforce- is something you care about, then it absolutely "has to do" with DL.

So your saying former NW employee's, who went on strike, then decided to cross the line, were inept mechanic's from the get go and didn't care about quality, while at NW ?

Or maybe your wearing your union blinders right now, and any non-union employee or line crosser, don't have the same ability as a union worker ?

Anyways, I will reiterate. I, personally, would not cross a picket line. Does that mean I believe a union worker has superior workmanship, over a non-union employee............ No!
 
http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-01-29/airline-safety-a-whistleblowers-tale

After mechanics at Northwest Airlines went out on strike on Aug. 20, 2005, Federal Aviation Administration safety inspector Mark Lund began to see troubling signs. One replacement mechanic didn't know how to test an engine. Another couldn't close a cabin door. Many did not seem properly trained. In Lund's view, their inexperience resulted in dangerous mistakes. One DC-10, for example, had a broken lavatory duct that allowed human waste to spill onto vital navigation equipment. The leak developed during a flight from Amsterdam to Minneapolis. Northwest (NWA) planned to let the plane continue on to Honolulu with the perilous and putrid problem unfixed—until one of Lund's fellow safety inspectors in Minneapolis intervened.
 
FAA didn’t oversee Northwest Airlines as it should have, report says


The investigation revealed that, despite Northwest’s history of AD non-compliance for more than a decade and current trends reflecting an increase in incidents of non-compliance, FAA inspectors continued to work collaboratively with Northwest to resolve deficiencies, allowing the carrier to submit numerous voluntary disclosures of non-compliance, and closing enforcement cases primarily by issuing letters of correction rather than seeking civil penalties.
The report found that these actions were “not adequate,” and in many instances were contrary to FAA guidance. The report further concluded that, given that AD non-compliance issues were continuing, the status of Northwest’s compliance with more than 1,000 ADs was unknown.​
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2010/07/faa-didnt-oversee-northwest-ai.html/
 

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