F/A TA agreement

[Elevation]

Most people don't know or care to know how PBS can be used to better schedules. They usually dismiss it outright because of hearsay or some anecdotal evidence. The truth is it can be an asset if it is negotiated properly and that's really the catch. Most NAC's screw the pooch on not acquiring the best in technical advise and are out gunned by the company the first time around. There are enough experts on the employees side if sought out and used, PBS can be a benefit instead of the boogieman.

 

[Travelpro72]

I can't understand how PBS will give an employee with 20 to 25 years more flexibility with their schedule than the current system. The system today is built into lines and some of those lines may include transatlantic, commutable trips ect. Since PBS allows each flight attendant to plug trips into their schedule what will be left? The good trips will go first. Sorry but I'm not buying it.

 

[Elevation]

I can't understand how PBS will give an employee with 20 to 25 years more flexibility with their schedule than the current system. The system today is built into lines and some of those lines may include transatlantic, commutable trips ect. Since PBS allows each flight attendant to plug trips into their schedule what will be left? The good trips will go first. Sorry but I'm not buying it.

I can tell you're not getting it. Maybe these links will help answer some questions and myths.

FAQ
FAQ2
FAQ3

Learning something new takes effort and an open mind. Accept it or not but it is coming time to get ahead of the ball.

 

[usfliboi]

Why dont we just wait and see what happens???? I assume the company will be fair ... and ultimatley we vote. So instead of some sitting back and enjoying seeing their mouths move....go do something productive! Will make ya feel much better! 🙂

 

[NYCDelta]

I know every PBS is different, but it really isn't horrible (depending on the system you use). When we started PBS at DL I had 11 years seniority-granted I was based in NYC, which made me artificially senior compared to most bases.
Some of the things I liked about it:
1) No more carry-over trips from month-to-month. This meant not having to pick something up in the first 5 days of the month if you caused a conflict (or risk being assigned).
2) The end of reserve. We switched to the infamous "A" day system. At that time everyone (except the top 25% in each base) had either 3 or 6 days of reserve each month depending on seniority. I had 3 days monthly for about 6 months, which then dropped to 0 (and I wasn't even in the top 25%). You could preference trips for your A Days and if they were available, you got them. Of my 6 months on A Days, I just preferenced "any International", and got 4 international trips, one domestic, and once where I sat on call for 3 days after doing airport standby. The things I liked about getting assigned trips was I hated being at their mercy! I could never sleep waiting for the phone to ring.
3) Jetway trades/partial trip trades. More flexibility.
4) "Real time" trades with each other AND Open time. First-come, first-served. I loved this. I know MANY senior people who thinks it's a travesty that junior people might get a trip they want. I thought it was more than fair. You already get weekends and holidays OFF (and have since the 80's) why shouldn't pick-ups/trades with open time at least be fair to everyone trying? Just my 0.02

Things I didn't like:
1) Extremely confusing at first. Takes many months of mistakes before you get it right. Even then, when you did make a mistake, a scheduling manager would tell you what you did wrong-all to no avail. I still couldn't get it. He/she could have lied to me for all I know.
2) Vacation sucks. No more dropping all trips that touch a vacation day. With PBS maxamizing time-off around vacation is tricky. In fact, I know some who only got 7 days OFF from their 7 day vacation stretch (where with the older system you could really get 14 or >).
3) More > 3 hour sits at hubs (at least it felt like it)
4) Sick time reduced to 42.5 hours per year TOTAL.

Now, I can't say if all this was caused by PBS or if some came right before/after (so some may have nothing to do with PBS). All of this information is anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, I left in 2008, right before the merger, so I'm not sure if things are exactly the same or not.

 

[AstroLounge]

I am a pilot on the East and that is the best damn post I have ever read regarding who we work for. Well done

NICDOA
NPJB

Agree! So the Gulag of Phoenix (Labor Camp)remains OPEN? Say it isn't so 🙄

 

[crazystnic]

I know every PBS is different, but it really isn't horrible (depending on the system you use). When we started PBS at DL I had 11 years seniority-granted I was based in NYC, which made me artificially senior compared to most bases.
Some of the things I liked about it:
1) No more carry-over trips from month-to-month. This meant not having to pick something up in the first 5 days of the month if you caused a conflict (or risk being assigned).
2) The end of reserve. We switched to the infamous "A" day system. At that time everyone (except the top 25% in each base) had either 3 or 6 days of reserve each month depending on seniority. I had 3 days monthly for about 6 months, which then dropped to 0 (and I wasn't even in the top 25%). You could preference trips for your A Days and if they were available, you got them. Of my 6 months on A Days, I just preferenced "any International", and got 4 international trips, one domestic, and once where I sat on call for 3 days after doing airport standby. The things I liked about getting assigned trips was I hated being at their mercy! I could never sleep waiting for the phone to ring.
3) Jetway trades/partial trip trades. More flexibility.
4) "Real time" trades with each other AND Open time. First-come, first-served. I loved this. I know MANY senior people who thinks it's a travesty that junior people might get a trip they want. I thought it was more than fair. You already get weekends and holidays OFF (and have since the 80's) why shouldn't pick-ups/trades with open time at least be fair to everyone trying? Just my 0.02

Things I didn't like:
1) Extremely confusing at first. Takes many months of mistakes before you get it right. Even then, when you did make a mistake, a scheduling manager would tell you what you did wrong-all to no avail. I still couldn't get it. He/she could have lied to me for all I know.
2) Vacation sucks. No more dropping all trips that touch a vacation day. With PBS maxamizing time-off around vacation is tricky. In fact, I know some who only got 7 days OFF from their 7 day vacation stretch (where with the older system you could really get 14 or >).
3) More > 3 hour sits at hubs (at least it felt like it)
4) Sick time reduced to 42.5 hours per year TOTAL.

Now, I can't say if all this was caused by PBS or if some came right before/after (so some may have nothing to do with PBS). All of this information is anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, I left in 2008, right before the merger, so I'm not sure if things are exactly the same or not.

My CAL friends who now have PBS, state it's the worst contract change they have ever made..
that is from first hand experience from someone I trust.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

I thought it was because the FAs were waiting for something to do with the pilots and "me too" clause? All the other groups got the job done years ago.

It has nothing to do with the "me too".

When Parker wants/needs a contract, you will get one. Until then, anything you vote on will be a concession.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

PBS was ratified in our last contract... we have it period... go read the language in our current contract.... it is there done...

You only have it if you want it. It is not a "done deal".

PBS can be a great thing, but your company refuses to even make it usable.

 

[N965VJ]

My CAL friends who now have PBS, state it's the worst contract change they have ever made..
that is from first hand experience from someone I trust.

Did they come from UA? I've heard the same thing a while back.

 

[songbirdstew]

Why dont we just wait and see what happens???? I assume the company will be fair ... and ultimatley we vote. So instead of some sitting back and enjoying seeing their mouths move....go do something productive! Will make ya feel much better! 🙂

You "assume the company will be fair"? BBBWWWWAAAAAAAA!!!!

Leave your dream world and face reality. Dog Parker...uh, I mean Doug, doesn't know the meaning of the word.

 

[fatherabraham]

Why a 5 year contract when its already taken them 7 to get this far. Im thinking 3yrs with a 3% raise every year after that until they negotiate another contract. United F/As got a $5k signing bonus. I'll get bent over with no grease. The Tempe Teens need to get a grip. Im sure they have already negotiated themselves some fine bonuses if the AA merger happens.

Whiz,

What a fabulous future thinking post!
Please please please get everyone you know talking to everyone involved with contract language to protect your understanding of agreement . DP / mgt has proven that unless each employee has a personal hand written ( in blood ) note of intended meaning they will insert their own after years of arbitration!

FA

 

[jimntx]

My CAL friends who now have PBS, state it's the worst contract change they have ever made..
that is from first hand experience from someone I trust.

And, a friend of mine who flies for Frontier says it's just the greatest. I guess it depends upon how PBS is implemented in your company. One thing I do know, PBS is NOT some monolithic system that is the same in every airline. I got extremely confused when I first heard of it because a friend at one airline that had it would say, "Well, this is the way PBS works." A friend at another airline would say, "No, PBS never works that way. This is the way it works." It made my little head hurt.

I'm just guessing here, but it seems the people at smaller airlines love it, but the bigger the airline (and therefore, the greater the number of bidding options), the less it is liked. (And, I think there is a certain element of "we've never done it that way before" thinking involved when an airline switches over to PBS.)

 

[N965VJ]

(And, I think there is a certain element of "we've never done it that way before" thinking involved when an airline switches over to PBS.)

That, along with a resistance to change. Around 20 years ago a proposal was floated to allow people to build their schedules by bidding using touch tones on the phone. Wow, did the senior mamas ever shoot that down fast because it sounded too complicated (and they were probably still paying the phone company every month for the lime green rotary phone on their kitchen wall). :huh: 😛

 

[usfliboi]

So because the job market isn't that great the flight attendant group should settle for what is given and not fight and demand more after a double bankruptcy contract and west flight attendants without a new contract for twelve years? US management claims they can't pay their flight attendants what the other legacy carriers pay due to their hub disadvantage but what they don't tell you is since US is smaller with smaller revenue, SO IS THEIR EMPLOYEE NUMBERS! Management can juggle numbers and make up whatever excuse suits them but it's all a bunch of bull. The flight attendant group is not asking but DEMANDING a better contract with better pay and NO CHANGES to the scope language. The word "a" or "the" will not be removed from section ONE of the contract. The mediator can recess the group before that ever happens. Send the t/a out now to vote on because with what the west group is losing coupled with what the east group isn't recouping it's doomed to fail.

LOL Amazing! This is the same tude I have heard since Eastern went out of buisness..... Unions cant demand anything my friend. The bottom line is...if the company can afford it youll get it otherwise we can bark and whine all day long.....doesnt make a difference..... How many years have you witnessed the tide turning and stilling trying to walk on water?