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F/A TA agreement

I thought it was because the FAs were waiting for something to do with the pilots and "me too" clause? All the other groups got the job done years ago.

f/a's in the East have not been waiting for that.... Our contract did not expire until Jan ...
We were forced into mediation.... (early) even though our contract had not expired... has nothing to do with the me too clause...

The West contract had been expired for years... We were in Joint contract negotiations... then.... had to join in the mediations that were
going on with the West... Me too has nothing to do with this process.... however the Me too is addressed in the process of making a new contract
 
Hey you could always find another job making more monies...Amazing how many complain but in reality know there is nothing better out there lol ! I am sure there will be better pay and some better policies in the new contract. Im not concerned what other companies and unions do nor should you... If it is that important and that great of a deal you could always go there?.........Just saying


Where do you get off on telling me to leave? Did I ever say I hated working here? All I said is drink the cool aide.... The company says they cant afford to give us a raise..???
So I say you work for free.... I want a raise... I want to make what I made in 1990 .... Do you have a problem with that??? I say you should make 19.99 per hour.... hope you can live on it...
 
Pbs may be inour contract, but it is not in the West contract. This may I remind you, is a joint contract. That being said, why would we have to keep it if they dont have it? Furthermore it was never implemented. I dont think it is written in stone since it is not in both the East and West contracts now.
psss.. you are a newbe... a new hire???? LOL you will learn... I am not leaving... you will not go up a number... only if I die...
 
PBS isn't a bad thing? Maybe for a growth airline or an airline with a much bigger route system and a lot more widebody aircraft. PBS starts with the most senior person reading their wish list top to bottom and left to right. What trips do you think are going to go first? Let me answer that for you. It will be transatlantic trips followed by highly commutable four and three day trips and the high time one days. What the east flight attendants see today with Primary lines, Sap, Secondary lines and augmentation is artificial seniority. With the AIL closing two days out granted the system will continually run 24 hours a day to try and satisfy your list but you may have better luck playing trip 7's at your local lottery. A line holder will have to try their hardest to trade or drop a trip on the ETB to get it out of their line. NOW is the kicker. You have a proposed reserve system where though not counted toward company time a reserve can make themselves aggressive and exercise their seniority on their ON DUTY days thus alleviating the need to fly their days off to make ends meet. WHO is going to pick up ETB as wildly as they do today giving up their precious 11 days off? Chances are you won't have that enticing trip anymore to begin with unless you're in the top tier. It's all in how you look at it but dems the facts folks.
 
PBS isn't a bad thing? Maybe for a growth airline or an airline with a much bigger route system and a lot more widebody aircraft. PBS starts with the most senior person reading their wish list top to bottom and left to right. What trips do you think are going to go first? Let me answer that for you. It will be transatlantic trips followed by highly commutable four and three day trips and the high time one days. What the east flight attendants see today with Primary lines, Sap, Secondary lines and augmentation is artificial seniority. With the AIL closing two days out granted the system will continually run 24 hours a day to try and satisfy your list but you may have better luck playing trip 7's at your local lottery. A line holder will have to try their hardest to trade or drop a trip on the ETB to get it out of their line. NOW is the kicker. You have a proposed reserve system where though not counted toward company time a reserve can make themselves aggressive and exercise their seniority on their ON DUTY days thus alleviating the need to fly their days off to make ends meet. WHO is going to pick up ETB as wildly as they do today giving up their precious 11 days off? Chances are you won't have that enticing trip anymore to begin with unless you're in the top tier. It's all in how you look at it but dems the facts folks.
agree... we have to remember our system is a seniority based system. when you got hired you signed on with it... yes???? so what is the problem... ????


you just got hired...??? or what.. we have been here with 30 years... and. i am still real junior... so what is your point???
 
PBS isn't a bad thing? Maybe for a growth airline or an airline with a much bigger route system and a lot more widebody aircraft. PBS starts with the most senior person reading their wish list top to bottom and left to right. What trips do you think are going to go first? Let me answer that for you. It will be transatlantic trips followed by highly commutable four and three day trips and the high time one days. What the east flight attendants see today with Primary lines, Sap, Secondary lines and augmentation is artificial seniority. With the AIL closing two days out granted the system will continually run 24 hours a day to try and satisfy your list but you may have better luck playing trip 7's at your local lottery. A line holder will have to try their hardest to trade or drop a trip on the ETB to get it out of their line. NOW is the kicker. You have a proposed reserve system where though not counted toward company time a reserve can make themselves aggressive and exercise their seniority on their ON DUTY days thus alleviating the need to fly their days off to make ends meet. WHO is going to pick up ETB as wildly as they do today giving up their precious 11 days off? Chances are you won't have that enticing trip anymore to begin with unless you're in the top tier. It's all in how you look at it but dems the facts folks.


Thanks for your perspective! There are some over here who are just FROTHING at the mouth over PBS. I'm serious about that...you can literally see the foam and saliva dripping around the open mouth of gnashing teeth. I don't know much about it other than we will ALL have it and it is already an agreed upon item. I also know it will create more hard lines and may take a while to implement as the final parameters have not been finalized.

Going up a number someone said? Will be interesting to see how many leave when the proposal is offered with a buyout??? and then how many decide they cannot work with the new contract. Probably will affect the West more than the East since many on the West are not used to 4 day trips.
 
It is an attitude like this that got us the contract we have today! You are mistaken and must feel trapped if you feel this is the best you can do for work. I encourage you to look inside companies in the real world and you will find you doing just fine! Always room for better contracts but at the end of the day it taint gonna be what it used to be!


Ummm, Stockholm syndrome is curable.

Koolaid poisoning must be pretty bad in desert land.

Read the thread. United just got a 5K signing bonus and a significant raise. Your "concern" for your employer's supposed travails is contrary to your own interests and therefore pathetic. US is capable of paying industry standard, which is what is required. Every industry confronts this same issue with regard to compensating employees. US is the only one that is under the delusion that they'll get off cheap.

A large percentage of EAST f/as have spent the last five years tending to side businesses, pursuing other careers and basically getting their houses in order rather than waiting for the Godot that is US' bankruptcy contract to expire. None of us are trapped, what we are is cognizant of the fact that we are underpaid and do not intend to remain so.

BTW, personal disparagements are the haven of the intellectually inferior. Discuss the issue, not the person.
 
I recall when I was in training at AWA that I came close to walking out, because something told me that things over there on that side of US Airways just reeked. I looked at the misery that they called contract and could not believe how any MEC could negociate something with so many loopholes. My classmates talked me into staying and I figured that I would be under that pathetic contract only for a year or so. But then immediately after training I ran into the wonderful supervisors over there at AWA. I could not believe the hostility and quiet frankly put up quite a fight back for as long as I had patience to do so. During my time there I got to understand how politics worked over there and how AWA managed to just keep a tight abusive grip on their workforce - despite union and all. Also, having read about how the executives would never repeat the story of what the original US Airways did after their mergers, I understood that they were serious on their quest to make sure that they would keep things as cheap for themselves for as long as they could.

To sum it up once again. The execs over there have never cared about the employees and never will. Employees are seen as a costly liability that they wished that they could do without. This mentality will continue for as long as Doug and Co continue to run the company.

I started to drink the coolaid for a while... cuz it seemed like the only way to make it... for the time. I started to think that the company was right. But then the merger of Delta came along. I truly believe that Delta was now gonna be taught a lesson about trying to integrate two different pilot groups. I thought and expected them to have just as bad of a time integrating pilots as US Airways had. But then Delta just showered both DL and NW pilots with money so that their integration was far from anything that resembles US Airways. Only then I realized that it really was truly just the evil way that US management wanted things to be over at US. Now I see United doing a similarly good thing with the F/As at UA and CO. Two pictures have already emerged that show that indeed it can be done differently than US Airways. Having seen this, reinforces my believe that the execs over at US are nothing short of scumbags.

Remember that AWA flight attendants were out of a current contract already by 2003 or so. (I am not too sure about when their CBA actually expired.) In 2005 they came close to voting for a new contract. Believe me that a new contract was definitely needed as the only one on premise (their first one) was an absolute disaster with too many loopholes and vague areas that the company just loved to exploit. And just as the merger was announced, everything that they negotiated and fought for so hard was pulled from underneath them. What can I say? Unscrupulous.

As a former east F/A, I have to say to all east: "Just take a glance at the AWA contract so you can see what kind of company you are dealing with today. You don't have it nearly as bad as the folks at AWA." I have carefully read all sorts of airline F/A contracts before from different companies. If you know how to read one very well, I truly suggest that you take the time, find the online version of it at AFA66.org, and take a glance at it. You will either laugh or be horrified, although I tend to believe that anyone not being under that contract would most likely laugh at it.

US Airways (America West management) refused pay parity for AWA flight attendants during these last 7 years, no-matter how many times AFA66 and even individual teared-up employees during crew news sessions asked for it. The execs at US stood their ground: "no pay parity, ever..." The bastards just absolutely have no sympathy for AW flight attendants that have barely sustainable salaries way below any other airline. Even new-start airlines like VX had a minimum of $20 bux an hour when AWA offered it's F/As $16 to $17 reaching 20 after five years, and staying on a seven year average well below any of the other 5 large carriers. Then you add the horrible working conditions and the companies blatant violations on vaguely written contract rules, that puts AWA below the lowest thresh-hold of minimum decency of a normal human being. I have to say, AWA has been the worst that I have ever seen of any employer out there. I should have followed my gut and left while in training.

All I can advocate for is for some serious analysis of whatever the company concocts out there as a TA proposal. Read very carefully the TA and make sure you bring to light any vague language and potential loopholes, as AWA just hopes for these in the masses. There is nothing that the company wants more than a hasty contract with lots of loopholes that they can take advantage of.

Just because it has been so long, don't feel pressured into voting in a CBA full of mistakes. I would be happy to see you guys actually go on strike and take the company a little bit down just for revenge and to show them that they have f***ed with you enough. I would be happy to see US shut down for months, sort of like Comair Pilots did to their airline once in the past. I would love to see the execs be brought to their knees and begging for anything to stop the strike, even a more expensive contract than other major carriers that US F/As really deserve.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for all of you and hope that you get a decent proposal, just because it just looks so bad on US Airways already what they have done to you.

Good luck to you all. May the starting salary be increased to $22, 5 year anniversary have a $10 dollar jump and the top out pay be $55 to $60.
 
agree... we have to remember our system is a seniority based system. when you got hired you signed on with it... yes???? so what is the problem... ????


you just got hired...??? or what.. we have been here with 30 years... and. i am still real junior... so what is your point???

The new reserve system is NOT a seniority based system. They will process ALL open trips in daily in inverse seniority order. How is THAT straight seniority? You can only use your seniority if you make yourself "aggressive". The trips that you pick up while "aggressive" does NOT count toward company time. Imagine the uproar that would be heard if that were negotiated for a lineholder. As for PBS you're right in that it's seniority based. Many a flight attendant will truly see just what their ACTUAL seniority will hold. Say goodbye to eighteen year flight attendants doing nothing but transatlantic or high time one day trips. ENJOY! :lol:
 
The new reserve system is NOT a seniority based system. They will process ALL open trips in daily in inverse seniority order. How is THAT straight seniority? You can only use your seniority if you make yourself "aggressive". The trips that you pick up while "aggressive" does NOT count toward company time. Imagine the uproar that would be heard if that were negotiated for a lineholder. As for PBS you're right in that it's seniority based. Many a flight attendant will truly see just what their ACTUAL seniority will hold. Say goodbye to eighteen year flight attendants doing nothing but transatlantic or high time one day trips. ENJOY! :lol:



I was not speaking about "Reserves" I was speaking about our system.... Not Reserves. I cant speak for the reserve system. Our Seniority is a system that puts us in order of date of hire. Yes you are listed as well in order of
seniority by date of hire. As far as them using reserves the way they do, I do not know. But your seniority is DATE OF Hire... That is what I am speaking about. There are many airlines that have PBS. And we will be able to hold what ever our seniority will hold. Now, you will get to vote on this contract. So I say vote for it , or turn it down. I personally have to wait to see what is in it. Good Luck!
 
psss.. you are a newbe... a new hire???? LOL you will learn... I am not leaving... you will not go up a number... only if I die...


I have 25 years and 2 mergers under my belt. I dont believe a thing MF or CA say. PBS benefits the company not me. Im ok with the way we bid now. Like I said before. The west doesnt have PBS in their contract so since this is a joint contract, when we vote it down it can be eliminated.
 
DP is fast becoming a very hated man...
watched the FA crew news in PHX the other day...

It's unbelievable this guy just keeps going around saying we are trying to get a contract....
I thought the FA's did a good job of stating their unrest.
 
Oh never fear the T/A is coming. Know the facts, pick it apart and be ready to vote as an INFORMED member! ! ! ! ! As for PBS? Well I don't see how it great here compared to what the east currently has. Know what you're giving up by accepting PBS guys and gals because it's a stinker! Sorry!
 
I recall when I was in training at AWA that I came close to walking out, because something told me that things over there on that side of US Airways just reeked. I looked at the misery that they called contract and could not believe how any MEC could negociate something with so many loopholes. My classmates talked me into staying and I figured that I would be under that pathetic contract only for a year or so. But then immediately after training I ran into the wonderful supervisors over there at AWA. I could not believe the hostility and quiet frankly put up quite a fight back for as long as I had patience to do so. During my time there I got to understand how politics worked over there and how AWA managed to just keep a tight abusive grip on their workforce - despite union and all. Also, having read about how the executives would never repeat the story of what the original US Airways did after their mergers, I understood that they were serious on their quest to make sure that they would keep things as cheap for themselves for as long as they could.

To sum it up once again. The execs over there have never cared about the employees and never will. Employees are seen as a costly liability that they wished that they could do without. This mentality will continue for as long as Doug and Co continue to run the company.

I started to drink the coolaid for a while... cuz it seemed like the only way to make it... for the time. I started to think that the company was right. But then the merger of Delta came along. I truly believe that Delta was now gonna be taught a lesson about trying to integrate two different pilot groups. I thought and expected them to have just as bad of a time integrating pilots as US Airways had. But then Delta just showered both DL and NW pilots with money so that their integration was far from anything that resembles US Airways. Only then I realized that it really was truly just the evil way that US management wanted things to be over at US. Now I see United doing a similarly good thing with the F/As at UA and CO. Two pictures have already emerged that show that indeed it can be done differently than US Airways. Having seen this, reinforces my believe that the execs over at US are nothing short of scumbags.

Remember that AWA flight attendants were out of a current contract already by 2003 or so. (I am not too sure about when their CBA actually expired.) In 2005 they came close to voting for a new contract. Believe me that a new contract was definitely needed as the only one on premise (their first one) was an absolute disaster with too many loopholes and vague areas that the company just loved to exploit. And just as the merger was announced, everything that they negotiated and fought for so hard was pulled from underneath them. What can I say? Unscrupulous.

As a former east F/A, I have to say to all east: "Just take a glance at the AWA contract so you can see what kind of company you are dealing with today. You don't have it nearly as bad as the folks at AWA." I have carefully read all sorts of airline F/A contracts before from different companies. If you know how to read one very well, I truly suggest that you take the time, find the online version of it at AFA66.org, and take a glance at it. You will either laugh or be horrified, although I tend to believe that anyone not being under that contract would most likely laugh at it.

US Airways (America West management) refused pay parity for AWA flight attendants during these last 7 years, no-matter how many times AFA66 and even individual teared-up employees during crew news sessions asked for it. The execs at US stood their ground: "no pay parity, ever..." The bastards just absolutely have no sympathy for AW flight attendants that have barely sustainable salaries way below any other airline. Even new-start airlines like VX had a minimum of $20 bux an hour when AWA offered it's F/As $16 to $17 reaching 20 after five years, and staying on a seven year average well below any of the other 5 large carriers. Then you add the horrible working conditions and the companies blatant violations on vaguely written contract rules, that puts AWA below the lowest thresh-hold of minimum decency of a normal human being. I have to say, AWA has been the worst that I have ever seen of any employer out there. I should have followed my gut and left while in training.

All I can advocate for is for some serious analysis of whatever the company concocts out there as a TA proposal. Read very carefully the TA and make sure you bring to light any vague language and potential loopholes, as AWA just hopes for these in the masses. There is nothing that the company wants more than a hasty contract with lots of loopholes that they can take advantage of.

Just because it has been so long, don't feel pressured into voting in a CBA full of mistakes. I would be happy to see you guys actually go on strike and take the company a little bit down just for revenge and to show them that they have f***ed with you enough. I would be happy to see US shut down for months, sort of like Comair Pilots did to their airline once in the past. I would love to see the execs be brought to their knees and begging for anything to stop the strike, even a more expensive contract than other major carriers that US F/As really deserve.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for all of you and hope that you get a decent proposal, just because it just looks so bad on US Airways already what they have done to you.

Good luck to you all. May the starting salary be increased to $22, 5 year anniversary have a $10 dollar jump and the top out pay be $55 to $60.

I am a pilot on the East and that is the best damn post I have ever read regarding who we work for. Well done

NICDOA
NPJB
 

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