F S C's

[brokenwrench]

Jetblue is non-union, the employees dont have a CBA and are employees at will.

Delta only has a contract with its pilots and dispatchers, the rest are non-union, employees at will with no contract.

I would go brush up and educate yourself.

Ask the PMNW how they made out in Chapter 11 vs the non-union PMDL employees and you will see why.

The Ramp/Gate folks at both airlines gave up virtually the same monetary amount but in different ways.
The AMT's at DL obviously made out better as they were not replaced with sub standard scab labor and the virtually giddy back stabbin by the IAM.

 

[CactUS4Ever]

The Ramp/Gate folks at both airlines gave up virtually the same monetary amount but in different ways.
The AMT's at DL obviously made out better as they were not replaced with sub standard scab labor and the virtually giddy back stabbin by the IAM.

And the TWU is not backstabbing it's employees over the years. We all know the TWU is in bed with AA and all the other unions do the same. I blame US as employees do not consolidate like the European unions do. We need to Consolidate. Solidarity is the key. We are all out for ourselves and screw the next guy. Were screwing ourselves and the unions are doing a great job getting us screwed by AA and Corporate America. We need the European Unions to show our unions on how it's done.

 

[strikeforce]

B6 actually IS a good comparison - it is precisely because virtually no airline has a "monopoly" route that onet airline can make money on routes they use to compete against another airline that has higher costs.... that is precisely the formula that WN has used very aggressively to establish itself in markets for years. For years WN was able to create new demand by lowering fares - and they largely did in markets that no one served - so everyone won. That strategy has been used by airlines around the world.
But as the number of those new markets shrank and WN realized it needed to move into cities where other carriers flew, they were quite successful at pushing a number of airlines out of markets where they were formerly strong.
It is precisely because AA can't endure any further incursions of any carriers into its key markets - and AA had the highest costs in the US large jet industry so ANY new flights into AA markets put AA at a disadvantage - that they had to do something to get their costs down.
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It is precisely because airlines are free to compete in any market - not only here in the US but pretty much from the US to most major markets around the globe - that no airline can afford to stand out w/ costs that are significantly above average for the industry.
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Since new carriers can constantly appear, it is imperative that established airlines be capable of protecting their key markets and then follow through on doing that.
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It has been noted several times here that AA's labor cost per hour will be lower than many of its competitors.... AA will still have a senior workforce compared to many low fare carriers but AA will have reduced some of the highest cost items including fuel and maintenance to levels that will make it possible for AA to compete with its network competitors and a good chunk of low fare carriers.
When the pool of carriers against which AA has to lose money in order to protect market share shrinks and if AA can regain control of its most valuable markets (by stopping the growth of other carriers into those markets), then AA should be able to effectively compete AND make money again.
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Of course there are a whole lot of cuts that will happen before AA gets there... but being able to be competitive again is the only realistic destination for AA.

BTW, are FSCs losing system protection so that does that mean they won't be able to bump into another station even as part of these layoffs? sounds like AA is removing system protection (or trying to) in a number of workgroups.

There's system protection and station protection.

System protection...the employee can still get bumped but not out the door. AA pays 12.5K for moving expenses. The Term sheet eliminated the out the door protection and moving expense.

 

[argybargy]

B6 actually IS a good comparison - it is precisely because virtually no airline has a "monopoly" route that onet airline can make money on routes they use to compete against another airline that has higher costs.... that is precisely the formula that WN has used very aggressively to establish itself in markets for years. For years WN was able to create new demand by lowering fares - and they largely did in markets that no one served - so everyone won. That strategy has been used by airlines around the world.
But as the number of those new markets shrank and WN realized it needed to move into cities where other carriers flew, they were quite successful at pushing a number of airlines out of markets where they were formerly strong.
It is precisely because AA can't endure any further incursions of any carriers into its key markets - and AA had the highest costs in the US large jet industry so ANY new flights into AA markets put AA at a disadvantage - that they had to do something to get their costs down.
.
It is precisely because airlines are free to compete in any market - not only here in the US but pretty much from the US to most major markets around the globe - that no airline can afford to stand out w/ costs that are significantly above average for the industry.
.
Since new carriers can constantly appear, it is imperative that established airlines be capable of protecting their key markets and then follow through on doing that.
.
It has been noted several times here that AA's labor cost per hour will be lower than many of its competitors.... AA will still have a senior workforce compared to many low fare carriers but AA will have reduced some of the highest cost items including fuel and maintenance to levels that will make it possible for AA to compete with its network competitors and a good chunk of low fare carriers.
When the pool of carriers against which AA has to lose money in order to protect market share shrinks and if AA can regain control of its most valuable markets (by stopping the growth of other carriers into those markets), then AA should be able to effectively compete AND make money again.
.
Of course there are a whole lot of cuts that will happen before AA gets there... but being able to be competitive again is the only realistic destination for AA.

BTW, are FSCs losing system protection so that does that mean they won't be able to bump into another station even as part of these layoffs? sounds like AA is removing system protection (or trying to) in a number of workgroups.

Bumping is covered under Article 15 and that was not proposed to be modified, however, they propose to close certain stations therefore they need to modify Station Protection to do so (Article 42 & 42.1).

They also don't want to pay the $12,500 therefore they proposed to eliminate that also (Article 44)

 

[strikeforce]

I meant 2nd in BK... I knew the next "helping" will be counted as 3rds.
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The problem with the industry is that there are still bottom feeders with regard to pricing.... some airlines do a pretty good job of pricing their product to attract premium passengers but there remain a few airlines whose business model can only be sustained by pricing below the rest of the industry. The industry collectively is not the problem... it is only a few airlines - and the sooner those are removed, the better the industry as a whole will function.
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Hard to fathom that any 737NG is being allowed to deteriorate to the condition of the M80s... but if you view assets as disposable (people included), then that is what will happen.

I guess once ALL employee wages reach minimum wage with no bennies.....the airlines will have to figure out other ways to compete. Finally!!

We're not there yet, but it's coming!!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

thank you, strike and argy, for clarifying regarding bumping. I did read about AA trying to elimnate the moving allowance. That along with the weak housing market and weak job market will clearly factor into some people's decision to move. Obviously if an employee no longer will can pension benefits by moving, the decision to move is based on the actual pay one will receive vs. what one could receive by staying in their current city and finding new employment - or collect unemployment for a while.
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The decision to terminate pension benefits provides a lot less of a reason to chase a job around the country.

 

[eolesen]

Oddly, I see all those posts quoting WT asking about relative seniority, station protection, system protection, etc...

Isn't he supposed to have a brother who is a FSC at DFW?... Or at least that's what he claimed a few months ago (hence his interest in gloating about DL showing concern for the plight of AAs employees....)

Why is he asking those questions here instead of talking with his aforementioned brother?... I wouldn't be wasting my time on the internet if I could just pick up the phone and call someone I've known, well, forever.

 

[WorldTraveler]

perhaps because he doesn't know many of the details either.... you know his union is in hiding and hasn't provided much information.
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FWIW, he has enough seniority that AA would have to shrink by about 75% before he would be out the door.... and is at DFW.
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He is happy that there will be no cuts in base pay rates - which some here said would be the case.
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You can turn your ignore function back on now, esp. since you only resurface to make a nasty remark, passing over the complement that I gave you.

 

[Birdman]

He is happy that there will be no cuts in base pay rates - which some here said would be the case.

Unfortunately, if the compAAny gets their way our insurance premiums will go up a minimum of $50 a month with much higher deductibles.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Unfortunately, if the compAAny gets their way our insurance premiums will go up a minimum of $50 a month with much higher deductibles.

exactly... he is already expecting that.

 

[chris perry]

Watch and see what happens at the base,it will be all osms with a few AMT's getting lic premium. In effect another 5.00 hour paycut...

 

[trenchworker]

Watch and see what happens at the base,it will be all osms with a few AMT's getting lic premium. In effect another 5.00 hour paycut...

still waiting for your response in the other thread....

 

[AANOTOK]

Kind of drifted off from the FSC's topic I would say. 🙄