F S C's

[strikeforce]

Am I understanding this correctly.
That any AA station with less than 20 flights per day will be "farmed out" ?
Does this mean a combo of AA main line AND A/E flights ?

You know what's really pathetic about this whole thing.....management has come around TWICE to provide information about the term sheet. The union, on the other hand, has gone into hiding. Where's the local presidents? Weren't they in those meetings?? And, the rest of the board?? What, the president and board don't discuss the situation to pass along info to the membership??

WTF!!!!

 

[strikeforce]

I can assure you that I manage nothing in the aviation industry, let alone at AA.
It is pretty doubtful that whatever tactics are being used aren't known to mgmt - or won't be pretty soon.
.
It also remains that if AA employees decide to "take it out on the company" they only run the risk that the company's plan won't work and they will end up coming back for more. There are more than enough cases of airlines that have come back for seconds and remaining in BK allows them the flexibility to make sure things find a new normal before emerging and giving up the right to impose changes as much as they are.
.
So, I'll ask another question which may not be perceived wrong...
What is the likelihood that FSCs in these small cities which will be cut will move to the hubs... ? any sense of their relative seniority as a group to those at the hubs (both from a retirement perspective and where they would fit in at the large hubs that will keep AA ramp)?

 

[strikeforce]

I can assure you that I manage nothing in the aviation industry, let alone at AA.
It is pretty doubtful that whatever tactics are being used aren't known to mgmt - or won't be pretty soon.
.
It also remains that if AA employees decide to "take it out on the company" they only run the risk that the company's plan won't work and they will end up coming back for more. There are more than enough cases of airlines that have come back for seconds and remaining in BK allows them the flexibility to make sure things find a new normal before emerging and giving up the right to impose changes as much as they are.
.
So, I'll ask another question which may not be perceived wrong...
What is the likelihood that FSCs in these small cities which will be cut will move to the hubs... ? any sense of their relative seniority as a group to those at the hubs (both from a retirement perspective and where they would fit in at the large hubs that will keep AA ramp)?

The company's plan won't work whether we revolt or allow AA to implement the plan. The whole plan centers on employee givebacks. The legacy 737 are over 10 years old and are worn down just like the md-80's. In 6 years, these aircraft will resemble the md-80's of today. AA will then complain that these aircraft are inefficient and gas guzzlers as well. There are over 100 of these POS aircraft flying around. 6 years from now AA will come up with sob story about how they can't compete against other carriers.....and the employees will be the targets again!

The aviation industry is the only industry that I can recall where virtually every company has either gone bK, out of business or forced carriers to merge in order to survive. Kind of tell you something about pricing. The carriers seem to collude well when it comes to raping their employees, but won't collude in pricing their product accordingly. Even raising fares just $10 would probably make EVERY carrier profitable, but they're not interested in doing that.....instead they're more interested in harming the same people they rely on to "take care of their customers". The HELL with them!!!!

 

[strikeforce]

I can assure you that I manage nothing in the aviation industry, let alone at AA.
It is pretty doubtful that whatever tactics are being used aren't known to mgmt - or won't be pretty soon.
.
It also remains that if AA employees decide to "take it out on the company" they only run the risk that the company's plan won't work and they will end up coming back for more. There are more than enough cases of airlines that have come back for seconds and remaining in BK allows them the flexibility to make sure things find a new normal before emerging and giving up the right to impose changes as much as they are.
.
So, I'll ask another question which may not be perceived wrong...
What is the likelihood that FSCs in these small cities which will be cut will move to the hubs... ? any sense of their relative seniority as a group to those at the hubs (both from a retirement perspective and where they would fit in at the large hubs that will keep AA ramp)?

AA has come back for seconds!

 

[WorldTraveler]

I meant 2nd in BK... I knew the next "helping" will be counted as 3rds.
.
The problem with the industry is that there are still bottom feeders with regard to pricing.... some airlines do a pretty good job of pricing their product to attract premium passengers but there remain a few airlines whose business model can only be sustained by pricing below the rest of the industry. The industry collectively is not the problem... it is only a few airlines - and the sooner those are removed, the better the industry as a whole will function.
.
Hard to fathom that any 737NG is being allowed to deteriorate to the condition of the M80s... but if you view assets as disposable (people included), then that is what will happen.

 

[tom barry]

As bad as Jim Little/TWU Is, they'll Never give up the Bag Room(s) in the surviving stations !

If AA does "get them"(especially in the Hubs and focus cities(JFK/LAX) Platinum members bags will be winging up in La Paz Bolivia, instead of Las Vegas !

And AA KNOWS IT !!!

 

[UPNAWAY]

Even raising fares just $10 would probably make EVERY carrier profitable, but they're not interested in doing that.....instead they're more interested in harming the same people they rely on to "take care of their customers". The HELL with them!!!!

Truly amazing how many airline employees that do not understand their own business. Airlines charge the very highest fare possible (to maximize revenue) all the time.

 

[700UW]

No they dont, if they did the airlines that have been in Chapter 11 or 7 would not have gone there.

They dont charge enough to cover expenses when they lose money.

Are you for real?

Apparently the CEOs, and other executives who make the decisions to run the company dont either.

For example if Jetblue has a lower CASM and US has a higher one, yet they both charge the same price for a ticket, B6 is covering expenses and making money while US isnt.

So I guess you can include yourself in the airline employees who dont understand.

 

[wings396]

No they dont, if they did the airlines that have been in Chapter 11 or 7 would not have gone there.

They dont charge enough to cover expenses when they lose money.

Are you for real?

Apparently the CEOs, and other executives who make the decisions to run the company dont either.

For example if Jetblue has a lower CASM and US has a higher one, yet they both charge the same price for a ticket, B6 is covering expenses and making money while US isnt.

So I guess you can include yourself in the airline employees who dont understand.

Doing a cost comparison with B6 isn't really a good one. They are a relatively new airline, with a junior workforce that earns less than their counterparts at US. While I don't have the numbers, I'm sure their payroll on a percentage basis is lower than ours.

 

[700UW]

It is a good comparison, because if B6 or any other airline's costs are lower than US', yet charge the same fair, then US isnt covering their costs and not charging the highest possible fair.

 

[WorldTraveler]

B6 actually IS a good comparison - it is precisely because virtually no airline has a "monopoly" route that onet airline can make money on routes they use to compete against another airline that has higher costs.... that is precisely the formula that WN has used very aggressively to establish itself in markets for years. For years WN was able to create new demand by lowering fares - and they largely did in markets that no one served - so everyone won. That strategy has been used by airlines around the world.
But as the number of those new markets shrank and WN realized it needed to move into cities where other carriers flew, they were quite successful at pushing a number of airlines out of markets where they were formerly strong.
It is precisely because AA can't endure any further incursions of any carriers into its key markets - and AA had the highest costs in the US large jet industry so ANY new flights into AA markets put AA at a disadvantage - that they had to do something to get their costs down.
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It is precisely because airlines are free to compete in any market - not only here in the US but pretty much from the US to most major markets around the globe - that no airline can afford to stand out w/ costs that are significantly above average for the industry.
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Since new carriers can constantly appear, it is imperative that established airlines be capable of protecting their key markets and then follow through on doing that.
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It has been noted several times here that AA's labor cost per hour will be lower than many of its competitors.... AA will still have a senior workforce compared to many low fare carriers but AA will have reduced some of the highest cost items including fuel and maintenance to levels that will make it possible for AA to compete with its network competitors and a good chunk of low fare carriers.
When the pool of carriers against which AA has to lose money in order to protect market share shrinks and if AA can regain control of its most valuable markets (by stopping the growth of other carriers into those markets), then AA should be able to effectively compete AND make money again.
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Of course there are a whole lot of cuts that will happen before AA gets there... but being able to be competitive again is the only realistic destination for AA.

BTW, are FSCs losing system protection so that does that mean they won't be able to bump into another station even as part of these layoffs? sounds like AA is removing system protection (or trying to) in a number of workgroups.

 

[CactUS4Ever]

Why do AA employees continue to pay dues to the TWU? Delta and Jetblue employees have a better contract with the company without a union. It's time to vote out the TWU.

 

[700UW]

Why do AA employees continue to pay dues to the TWU? Delta and Jetblue employees have a better contract with the company without a union. It's time to vote out the TWU.

Jetblue is non-union, the employees dont have a CBA and are employees at will.

Delta only has a contract with its pilots and dispatchers, the rest are non-union, employees at will with no contract.

I would go brush up and educate yourself.

Ask the PMNW how they made out in Chapter 11 vs the non-union PMDL employees and you will see why.

 

[CactUS4Ever]

Jetblue is non-union, the employees dont have a CBA and are employees at will.

Delta only has a contract with its pilots and dispatchers, the rest are non-union, employees at will with no contract.

I would go brush up and educate yourself.

Ask the PMNW how they made out in Chapter 11 vs the non-union PMDL employees and you will see why.

 

[CactUS4Ever]

I know they have no CBA that is why I mentioned those 2 companies. I meant to say agreement not contract and didnt realize people are so anal. It's just a forum not a court hearing. I meant to say the employees at Jetblue and Delta seem to be doing alot better keeping there employees happy with whatever work rules and agreement they have with each other because they keep voting no union. AA is not doing good with it's employees and the TWU. Delta is doing something right because they are making money and i talk to there employees often and they seem happy to work there. I worked at AA for 3years and everyone is miserable and that made me resign.