FA furloughs and STL transfers

[IORFA]

biccal,

You are absolutely correct. AA has never allowed it. BUT, Eagle is different they are on a different seniority list and have a different contract. They/We are on the same seniority list as TWA LLC. and fall under the same contract, that is why it is happening. If AA and Eagle f/a''s were on the same list, you would see us going over there and vice versa.

 

[sfo2laxfsc]

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On 5/15/2003 4:12:11 PM Senor Pelon wrote:

The seniority of the former TWA F/A''s should have never been combined with the nAAtives until the fence came down in STL. What has been done to them to totally ROTTEN and dirty by the same union that is supposed to represent them. I do not consider the APFA a labor union nor will they ever have my support.

----------------​

oh puuhlease!!! the apfa is the only "real" union on the aa property. they have tremendous solidarity and go the "extra mile" to protect their members. they were the only union who had the "guts" to handle the twa disaster properly. you ''senor'' should be thanking your lucky stars that you only had to deal with the "weak-sister," also known as the pathetic twu. if it had been apfa or even apa you would not be sitting in your nice ft position at lax while guys who worked hard to build this company are reduced to pt or laid-off. "rotten and dirty," huh, i think you better look in the mirror!!!

 

[bicaal]

Are they not afraid of the precedent this will make?

 

[Senor Pelon]

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On 5/21/2003 4:05:18 PM sfo2laxfsc wrote:

----------------
On 5/15/2003 4:12:11 PM Senor Pelon wrote:

The seniority of the former TWA F/A''s should have never been combined with the nAAtives until the fence came down in STL. What has been done to them to totally ROTTEN and dirty by the same union that is supposed to represent them. I do not consider the APFA a labor union nor will they ever have my support.

----------------​

oh puuhlease!!! the apfa is the only "real" union on the aa property. they have tremendous solidarity and go the "extra mile" to protect their members. they were the only union who had the "guts" to handle the twa disaster properly. you ''senor'' should be thanking your lucky stars that you only had to deal with the "weak-sister," also known as the pathetic twu. if it had been apfa or even apa you would not be sitting in your nice ft position at lax while guys who worked hard to build this company are reduced to pt or laid-off. "rotten and dirty," huh, i think you better look in the mirror!!!

----------------​

Protecting their members? And what the heck do you think those F/A''s in STL are? I tell you, the APFA considers them "persona no grata" within their. association. Do you want to know how ROTTEN the leadership is? They tried to take away the furlough pay of the F/A''s that were furloughed in April and May even though they already had received that payment. As for you, you are no union member in the true sense. I have nothing to be ashamed of. The TWU did the right thing. When 2 unions cannot agree on anything, they take it to arbitration and let a third neutral party decide after hearing the arguments of both parties. You just arbitrarily do not impose your wishes on other union brothers. Thats ture unionism is all about.

 

[sfo2laxfsc]

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On 5/22/2003 3:38:46 PM Senor Pelon wrote:

----------------
On 5/21/2003 4:05:18 PM sfo2laxfsc wrote:

----------------
On 5/15/2003 4:12:11 PM Senor Pelon wrote:

The seniority of the former TWA F/A's should have never been combined with the nAAtives until the fence came down in STL. What has been done to them to totally ROTTEN and dirty by the same union that is supposed to represent them. I do not consider the APFA a labor union nor will they ever have my support.

----------------​

oh puuhlease!!! the apfa is the only "real" union on the aa property. they have tremendous solidarity and go the "extra mile" to protect their members. they were the only union who had the "guts" to handle the twa disaster properly. you 'senor' should be thanking your lucky stars that you only had to deal with the "weak-sister," also known as the pathetic twu. if it had been apfa or even apa you would not be sitting in your nice ft position at lax while guys who worked hard to build this company are reduced to pt or laid-off. "rotten and dirty," huh, i think you better look in the mirror!!!

----------------​

Protecting their members? And what the heck do you think those F/A's in STL are? I tell you, the APFA considers them "persona no grata" within their. association. Do you want to know how ROTTEN the leadership is? They tried to take away the furlough pay of the F/A's that were furloughed in April and May even though they already had received that payment. As for you, you are no union member in the true sense. I have nothing to be ashamed of. The TWU did the right thing. When 2 unions cannot agree on anything, they take it to arbitration and let a third neutral party decide after hearing the arguments of both parties. You just arbitrarily do not impose your wishes on other union brothers. Thats ture unionism is all about.


----------------​

sure the apfa has faults just like any other union. but if you want to use this one instance to justify your opinion that they are "rotten" then you are not very wise...but then again that wouldnt surprise me being that you judge the twu as "doing the right thing" because you benefitted from their idiocy. i wonder what is the opinion of all those aaers that you "bumped" of the twu. you know those guys with 7 and 8 years. somehow i bet they dont share your view. as far as not being a "true" member, i hold the sentiments of a large percentege naatives. and as for apfa, with the exception of this one mishap, they are hands down the best union on the property. if the twu could have done half the job apfa did, they would have more respect from naatives and i'd bet you would have a completely different opinion of them. but your right you have no more reason to be ashamed than the homeless guy who bought the winning lottery ticket with his last dollar instead of food.

 

[rampguy]

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On 5/22/2003 9:33:36 PM sfo2laxfsc wrote:

----------------
On 5/22/2003 3:38:46 PM Senor Pelon wrote:

----------------
On 5/21/2003 4:05:18 PM sfo2laxfsc wrote:

----------------
On 5/15/2003 4:12:11 PM Senor Pelon wrote:

The seniority of the former TWA F/A''s should have never been combined with the nAAtives until the fence came down in STL. What has been done to them to totally ROTTEN and dirty by the same union that is supposed to represent them. I do not consider the APFA a labor union nor will they ever have my support.

----------------​

oh puuhlease!!! the apfa is the only "real" union on the aa property. they have tremendous solidarity and go the "extra mile" to protect their members. they were the only union who had the "guts" to handle the twa disaster properly. you ''senor'' should be thanking your lucky stars that you only had to deal with the "weak-sister," also known as the pathetic twu. if it had been apfa or even apa you would not be sitting in your nice ft position at lax while guys who worked hard to build this company are reduced to pt or laid-off. "rotten and dirty," huh, i think you better look in the mirror!!!

----------------​

Protecting their members? And what the heck do you think those F/A''s in STL are? I tell you, the APFA considers them "persona no grata" within their. association. Do you want to know how ROTTEN the leadership is? They tried to take away the furlough pay of the F/A''s that were furloughed in April and May even though they already had received that payment. As for you, you are no union member in the true sense. I have nothing to be ashamed of. The TWU did the right thing. When 2 unions cannot agree on anything, they take it to arbitration and let a third neutral party decide after hearing the arguments of both parties. You just arbitrarily do not impose your wishes on other union brothers. Thats ture unionism is all about.


----------------​

sure the apfa has faults just like any other union. but if you want to use this one instance to justify your opinion that they are "rotten" then you are not very wise...but then again that wouldnt surprise me being that you judge the twu as "doing the right thing" because you benefitted from their idiocy. i wonder what is the opinion of all those aaers that you "bumped" of the twu. you know those guys with 7 and 8 years. somehow i bet they dont share your view. as far as not being a "true" member, i hold the sentiments of a large percentege naatives. and as for apfa, with the exception of this one mishap, they are hands down the best union on the property. if the twu could have done half the job apfa did, they would have more respect from naatives and i''d bet you would have a completely different opinion of them. but your right you have no more reason to be ashamed than the homeless guy who bought the winning lottery ticket with his last dollar instead of food.

----------------​

What a bunch of pure garbage. Senor bumped NOBODY with 8 yrs. He should have been able too but it isn''t allowed. 22 year old people with 3 yrs in stay while people with over 30 years are laid off so get it straight.

Your views may have the majority sentiment but who cares. The majority isn''t always correct and it doesn''t mean you are.

Lottery ticket? Maybe those junior FA''s at AA that continue to work solely due to the STL hub are the ones that cashed in because if AA hadn''t bought TWA and merged the operations then they would have been laid off too.

I am one that never advocated that TWA get 100% seniority but I didn''t agree with the staple job either.

Now that we all have had our say and we won''t agree nor will we get anything changed, lets move on.

 

[coldplay]

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On 5/23/2003 2:39:16 AM rampguy wrote:

Maybe those junior FA''s at AA that continue to work solely due to the STL hub are the ones that cashed in because if AA hadn''t bought TWA and merged the operations then they would have been laid off too.

----------------​

ahh, but then again if AA hadn''t bought TWA and merged the operations Then maybe there would have been no reason to lay off those junior AA FAs.

 

[Cosmo]

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On 5/23/2003 9:25:01 AM coldplay wrote:

ahh, but then again if AA hadn''t bought TWA and merged the operations Then maybe there would have been no reason to lay off those junior AA FAs.
----------------​

So you''re saying that if AA had simply not bought TWA, 9/11 wouldn''t have happened? Or the Iraq War wouldn''t have happened? Or SARS wouldn''t have happened? These events have had a profound impact on all airlines, AA included, and they would have caused substantial furloughs at AA even without the TWA purchase. So regardless of anyone''s opinion about whether or not AA was right to buy TWA''s assets (and how the two workforces were subsequently integrated), it defies logic to say that "maybe there would have been no reason to lay off those junior AA FAs" given the events of the past 18 months. Get real!

 

[FWAAA]

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On 5/23/2003 10:12:34 AM Cosmo wrote:

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On 5/23/2003 9:25:01 AM coldplay wrote:

ahh, but then again if AA hadn''t bought TWA and merged the operations Then maybe there would have been no reason to lay off those junior AA FAs.
----------------​

So you''re saying that if AA had simply not bought TWA, 9/11 wouldn''t have happened? Or the Iraq War wouldn''t have happened? Or SARS wouldn''t have happened? These events have had a profound impact on all airlines, AA included, and they would have caused substantial furloughs at AA even without the TWA purchase. So regardless of anyone''s opinion about whether or not AA was right to buy TWA''s assets (and how the two workforces were subsequently integrated), it defies logic to say that "maybe there would have been no reason to lay off those junior AA FAs" given the events of the past 18 months. Get real!

----------------​

Exactly. UAL didn''t buy TWA, but they are broke, too.

CO is nearly broke, and I expect they will file Ch 11 before the end of the year. NW and DL aren''t broke yet, but if they don''t cut their costs, they will be broke. None of those carriers bought an airline like TWA - so why aren''t they thriving??

In today''s new low-fare, low-yield environment, the purchase of TWA might actually help enable AA to survive (at least a few more years).

 

[sfo2laxfsc]

On 5/22/2003 9:33:36 PM sfo2laxfsc wrote:

sure the apfa has faults just like any other union. but if you want to use this one instance to justify your opinion that they are "rotten" then you are not very wise...but then again that wouldnt surprise me being that you judge the twu as "doing the right thing" because you benefitted from their idiocy. i wonder what is the opinion of all those aaers that you "bumped" of the twu. you know those guys with 7 and 8 years. somehow i bet they dont share your view. as far as not being a "true" member, i hold the sentiments of a large percentege naatives. and as for apfa, with the exception of this one mishap, they are hands down the best union on the property. if the twu could have done half the job apfa did, they would have more respect from naatives and i'd bet you would have a completely different opinion of them. but your right you have no more reason to be ashamed than the homeless guy who bought the winning lottery ticket with his last dollar instead of food.



On 5/23/2003 2:39:42 AM rampguy wrote:

​

What a bunch of pure garbage. Senor bumped NOBODY with 8 yrs. He should have been able too but it isn't allowed. 22 year old people with 3 yrs in stay while people with over 30 years are laid off so get it straight.

Your views may have the majority sentiment but who cares. The majority isn't always correct and it doesn't mean you are.
Lottery ticket? Maybe those junior FA's at AA that continue to work solely due to the STL hub are the ones that cashed in because if AA hadn't bought TWA and merged the operations then they would have been laid off too.
I am one that never advocated that TWA get 100% seniority but I didn't agree with the staple job either.
Now that we all have had our say and we won't agree nor will we get anything changed, lets move on.
----------------
​

oh my bad...he "bumped" guys with 7yrs. as far as guys with 3yrs staying ft at lax...huhhhh, i think you should get your facts straight buddy. oh yeah, name ONE guy who earned over 30yrs at aa who was bumped by a 3yr guy??? and in terms of your "who cares" remark....bravo,bravo you get an "A" in critical analysis because that's actually a better response than i thought i would get from you. as for our junior f/a's "cashing in" i'm sure they are just itching with excitement about having to endure st louis and that miserable little airport for god knows how long (god bless them, because they'll need it).
oh, and by the way, about "pure garbage???" just look in the mirror and you'll see 80yrs of it.














willing to risk nothing, wanting to gain everything

 

[L1011Ret]

Gee, you''d think AAers would be happy to have a job at that "miserable little airport." After all wasen''t it APFA that fenced the LLCers into that place for the last two years. Forced them to commute! I bet a lot of TWAers would love to continue to commute just to have a job. As nAAtives used to say to TWAers, "you''re lucky to have a job" when they complained about being forced to commute. Then there is APFA''s complaing of fraud about AA medling in their voting process and declaring it invalid and going for a third vote only to accept the second "tainted" vote. It other words they accepted a fraudulent process. Then they forced somewhere between 150 to 200 million of 340 million in concessions onto the backs of TWA F/As, furloughed them all and they get no furlough pay. As if that was not enough. APFA went to AA and tried to halt the furlough pay of the April and May furloughees so they could use it as concessions. AA rightfully refused.

 

[MiAAmi]

Quit manipulating the facts. Yes AA filed a tax loss last year sighting TWA and Reno as BAD investments. No one said that TWA was the only reason AA was losing money. But TWA does not help the situation. The TWA''ers signed away their rights to seniority during the buyout. Now they want to turn around and say that AA and APFA cheated them. Boo Hoo! As far as furlough pay (considering that TWA would have never survived 9-11 and everything else that the airlines have had to endure) consider your RAISE for the past 2 years your furlough pay.

 

[L1011Ret]

I do not believe AA has stated TWA was a bad purchase. What they have said is that given a bit more foresight they might not have purchased TWA nor would they have purchased as many aircraft as they did. As for TWA being the cause of AA financial problems, that is utter nonsense, no one believes that. TWA did not cause AA to lose 10 billion in two years. Remember too that it was Don Carty who insisted TWA go into bankruptcy even though TWA did not have to go into bankruptcy.
The real bad part about the whole TWA purchase was the resulting labor problems. Had AA insisted on some reasonable process like arbitrators and fact finders to resolve the issues for better or worse, AA would be facing a lot less problems and more likely a more harmonious work force.

 

[MiAAmi]

I think if you were to ask anyone from AA whether they think AA should have purchased TWA ( regardless of 9-11 and all the other economic problems) more than likely they would say NO. I think we would all have rather taken our chances without TWA. TWA is not the only cause of our financial situation, but has continued to drain this company year after year. Buying TWA has not saved one AA job, if TWA wasn''t around there wouldn''t be the need to get rid of them. Buying TWA was a bad decision and the company has publicly stated this.

 

[FA Mikey]

If Reno was a good purchase where have all the planes and routes for Reno gone?