Farming Out The Line

[strikeforce]

I understand your feelings but that's not what I asked. I'll try it a different way.

By removing line from all association with overhaul as you seem to want to do making line a relatively smal group, how long do you believe it will be until your group isn't large enough for your so-called "representation" to deal with seriously? How much easier will it be for the company to run roughshod over the line people knowing full well their smaller numbers could be easily replaced much faster than overhaul personnel?

As nice as it sounds on the surface, you're setting yourself up for quite a fall, I believe.

It's not so easy to replace 400 mechanics at ORD overnight. Do you think the mechanics are just gonna sit there and watch the company roll all over us without some resistance? I don't know of any airlines that replaced their line mechanics overnight, or after BK. Not too sure about NW, but I believe UA, CO, DL all kept their Class 1 Line mechanics after BK. I guess AA can try to run roughshod.....good luck to them!

I think historically it's been a lot easier for airlines to shed OH! Look how easy it was for AA to find a contractor to do the 4 757.

 

[Hopeful]

In addressing this topic/poll....All one needs to do is look at the low cost carriers and the legacy carriers that have filed Ch.11 reorginization...The LCC's have NO heavy overhaul AT ALL....And the bankrupt ones SHED overhaul and slashed THOUSANDS of mechanics...As in the case of Delta..after shedding thousands of jobs in ATL and closing DFW.....they later on go into the contract OH biz at even lower rates...

I don't know about the smaller stations, but i cannot believe it would be too efficient to have on-call maintenance covering the hundreds of flights each at DFW,ORD, and MIA.....
When AA claims they are at a cost disadvantage on the maintenance end,,,,,it appears they want to emulate the other carriers.

 

[wrencher]

It's not so easy to replace 400 mechanics at ORD overnight. Do you think the mechanics are just gonna sit there and watch the company roll all over us without some resistance? I don't know of any airlines that replaced their line mechanics overnight, or after BK. Not too sure about NW, but I believe UA, CO, DL all kept their Class 1 Line mechanics after BK. I guess AA can try to run roughshod.....good luck to them!

I think historically it's been a lot easier for airlines to shed OH! Look how easy it was for AA to find a contractor to do the 4 757.

When they had ample space and mechanics who kniew these aircraft and would move back to MCI thus creating openings for movement, the TWU interenational and some local presidents allowed that work to be outsourced. Everyone let this show you no one is excluded by the companies or TWU's bad decisions. I would expect something like this from the company but union people fighting amongs themeselves in the same class and the TWU just sits back planning their next round of excuses. Kick their blanks out and get some proffessional people in on negotiations while you still have something worth fighting for.

 

[Frank Szabo]

It's not so easy to replace 400 mechanics at ORD overnight. Do you think the mechanics are just gonna sit there and watch the company roll all over us without some resistance? I don't know of any airlines that replaced their line mechanics overnight, or after BK. Not too sure about NW, but I believe UA, CO, DL all kept their Class 1 Line mechanics after BK. I guess AA can try to run roughshod.....good luck to them!

I think historically it's been a lot easier for airlines to shed OH! Look how easy it was for AA to find a contractor to do the 4 757.

You're welcome to believe what you wish but the numbers aren't in your favor.

 

[FWAAA]

It's a shame that, again, the line guys want to be their own entity.

OK - do so - make your numbers smaller. As a smaller part of the workforce, the company should be able to get you guys over a barrel worse than ever before.

I do hope you wake up.

Perhsps you're right, but your present size (what is it, about 9,000 AMTs total?) hasn't done much for you in the past (or currently), except in the 2001 agreement. Size didn't seem to mitigate the 2003 forced concessions nor did it bring you much in the way of riches in all the contracts prior to 2001. You've been the largest group of aircraft mechanics for many years, yet the nonunion B6 AMTs make more than AA AMTs. WTH?

On the contrary, a relatively small maintenance staff at WN (only about 2,500 total personnel in MX, dunno how many are AMTs) seems to have worked out ok for those guys. Same story at UPS, with fewer than 1,000 AMTs, if I recall.

I hear over and over and over again on this forum that it's a myth that outsourcing heavy overhaul saves money, despite the fact that all of AA's competitors (all of whom are currently profitable, of course) farm out some or all of their heavy checks. Arguments abound that quality of inhouse work means less mopping up the mistakes of the El Salvador $2/hr to $5/hr hacks. If that's true, then you should be able to keep the work at TULE and AFW and DWH without any problem. As has been pointed out repeatedly, it's not likely that AA will ever agree to pay its base mechanics the same high pay demanded by the line (where the market rate at some airlines is already $50 or nearly so). Up to now, AA has been willing to pay everyone the same $33 and change. The DOT numbers confirm that AA's total spending on maintenance is the highest in the industry, despite the relatively low hourly wage.

Strength in numbers? Hasn't been the case at AA despite your large numbers. Much smaller groups of mechanics are getting much larger (in some cases, 50% larger) hourly wages.

 

[strikeforce]

You're welcome to believe what you wish but the numbers aren't in your favor.

The only number in our favor is the market rate for Line maintenance $45-51 per hour. I think you should be more concerned with OH going it alone because TIMCO, PEMCO and all these other MRO's pay less than what you're currently making. There is an alternative to this discussion pitting Line vs. OH.....give Line more say at the negotiating table and implement a system where it's fair and balanced. The abolishment of the roll call vote would be start, and then having seperate voting councils 1. Line 2. Bases 3. Title II

Title I Line maintenance locals would make up the Line presidents council.

Title I TUL, AFW, and DWH would make up the Base presidents council.

Title II representative council, and within this council Automotive, Facilities and Plant would hold seperate negotiations with AA. The idea behind this is that market rates for auto, plant and facilities are all different.

Each council would negotiate and vote seperately on each respective T/A with the company.



It's not so hard, Is it????

 

[Buck]

The only number in our favor is the market rate for Line maintenance $45-51 per hour. I think you should be more concerned with OH going it alone because TIMCO, PEMCO and all these other MRO's pay less than what you're currently making. There is an alternative to this discussion pitting Line vs. OH.....give Line more say at the negotiating table and implement a system where it's fair and balanced. The abolishment of the roll call vote would be start, and then having seperate voting councils 1. Line 2. Bases

The Line maintenance locals would make up the Line presidents council.

TUL, AFW, and DWH would make up the Base presidents council.

Each council would negotiate and vote seperately with the company.

It's not so hard, Is it????

GOODTLUCKWWITHUTHAT​

 

[Duke787]

Perhsps you're right, but your present size (what is it, about 9,000 AMTs total?) hasn't done much for you in the past (or currently), except in the 2001 agreement. Size didn't seem to mitigate the 2003 forced concessions nor did it bring you much in the way of riches in all the contracts prior to 2001. You've been the largest group of aircraft mechanics for many years, yet the nonunion B6 AMTs make more than AA AMTs. WTH?

On the contrary, a relatively small maintenance staff at WN (only about 2,500 total personnel in MX, dunno how many are AMTs) seems to have worked out ok for those guys. Same story at UPS, with fewer than 1,000 AMTs, if I recall.

I hear over and over and over again on this forum that it's a myth that outsourcing heavy overhaul saves money, despite the fact that all of AA's competitors (all of whom are currently profitable, of course) farm out some or all of their heavy checks. Arguments abound that quality of inhouse work means less mopping up the mistakes of the El Salvador $2/hr to $5/hr hacks. If that's true, then you should be able to keep the work at TULE and AFW and DWH without any problem. As has been pointed out repeatedly, it's not likely that AA will ever agree to pay its base mechanics the same high pay demanded by the line (where the market rate at some airlines is already $50 or nearly so). Up to now, AA has been willing to pay everyone the same $33 and change. The DOT numbers confirm that AA's total spending on maintenance is the highest in the industry, despite the relatively low hourly wage.

Strength in numbers? Hasn't been the case at AA despite your large numbers. Much smaller groups of mechanics are getting much larger (in some cases, 50% larger) hourly wages.

The tech svc c/c's and sim mechs have seperate contracts within the TWU and are very small groups.

 

[strikeforce]

GOODTLUCKWWITHUTHAT​

It's an idea, and you're against it!

I'm trying!!!

 

[strikeforce]

GOODTLUCKWWITHUTHAT​

What don't you like about my idea???

 

[Buck]

It's an idea, and you're against it!

I'm trying!!!

Not against it, just do not believe it is a feasible theory. My main way of thinking is that the TWU would never consider such a move.

 

[strikeforce]

Not against it, just do not believe it is a feasible theory. My main way of thinking is that the TWU would never consider such a move.

First, it has be presented in a way that keeps OH and LINE together thereby continuing the dues machine, and it gives each council real independence. In the future, Line can't blame OH or Title II. Second, with this real independence Line may be more favorable to sticking it to the company when Base has issues getting a contract because the whole agreement will not pass unless all councils pass their T/A. And, the thinking behind that is...IF Line is able to secure something close to WN wages and Base is having difficulty with AA, the Line can put pressure on the company to get something done with Base. It may just unify US a little bit more than we currently are Buck.

 

[Buck]

First, it has be presented in a way that keeps OH and LINE together thereby continuing the dues machine, and it gives each council real independence. In the future, Line can't blame OH or Title II. Second, with this real independence Line may be more favorable to sticking it to the company when Base has issues getting a contract because the whole agreement will not pass unless all councils pass their T/A. And, the thinking behind that is...IF Line is able to secure something close to WN wages and Base is having difficulty with AA, the Line can put pressure on the company to get something done with Base. It may just unify US a little bit more than we currently are Buck.

I do not have a problem with a line premium or geo pay. The TWU should not either, after all they had no problem with the "B" Scale. I am rather sure that something can be worked out. I trust that Mr. Owens will do what he can to secure something for the line. Unless the TWU gets in his way.