For Adults Only!

[Ms Tree]

I think this is going to get interesting. The WH just introduced a debt offer that includes cuts to entitlements which are sacred to Dems but it also included tax increases. The republicans are balking and I think it will be their down fall. The WH finally realized that it's going to take cuts in spending and increases in revenue to solve this disaster. The republicans seem to be late tot he game as always. Obama is setting him self up for a win-win. If republicans cave, it was his idea and he made sacrifices. If the republicans decline it and we default, he can say he tried but the republicans did not want to face reality. Ballsie move on Obamas part. I wonder if the dem leadership was on board with this from the get go or if Obama had to get them to pull their head out of their butts to get this to work?

I bet Norquist is not having a good day.

 

[delldude]

What did the dem's come up with?

 

[dapoes]

What did the dem's come up with?

Nothing

 

[dapoes]

I think this is going to get interesting. The WH just introduced a debt offer that includes cuts to entitlements which are sacred to Dems but it also included tax increases. The republicans are balking and I think it will be their down fall. The WH finally realized that it's going to take cuts in spending and increases in revenue to solve this disaster. The republicans seem to be late tot he game as always. Obama is setting him self up for a win-win. If republicans cave, it was his idea and he made sacrifices. If the republicans decline it and we default, he can say he tried but the republicans did not want to face reality. Ballsie move on Obamas part. I wonder if the dem leadership was on board with this from the get go or if Obama had to get them to pull their head out of their butts to get this to work?

I bet Norquist is not having a good day.

You aren't gonna have a good day come nov 2012 when Obama gets his walking papers.

 

[Ms Tree]

I stand corrected. I just read that Norquist is not going to consider letting the Bush tax cuts lapse as a tax increase. Seems he understands that the tea party stance on taxes is untenable. Time for the republican two step. Lets see if the party can catch on before it's too late.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The only folks more fearful than the Democrats of the Tea Party Movement are Republicans. No matter how many dollars raised by either side the Tea Party is going to vote solely on their "hot button" issues and we know what they are. Truth is the East Coast Republican Elite Establishment is dropping deuces just as fast if not faster then the Democrats.

Like it or don't the Tea Party is highly likely IMO to hold the balance of power in the election. Even if they amount to as little as 10% of the total who vote they have to be dealt with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77i2bApGwnM

 

[Ms Tree]

The way things are looking the tea party is going to hand the dems the election. If they keep hanging on to their tax dogma, it will be over for them in my opinion.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The way things are looking the tea party is going to hand the dems the election. If they keep hanging on to their tax dogma, it will be over for them in my opinion.

Living here in the Upper Midwest and noting that the 20 day shutdown of the MN State Gooberment was met with a giant yawn, despite the blatant class warfare advertisements from one side regarding taxing the "Wealthiest 2%" vs letting those evil Republicans take away your schools, roads etc etc seems to have had little effect. It's been interesting to be certain.

I sense it but I can't prove it that this time around the message of Ron Paul and the Tea Party is getting a lot more traction than it ever has before. Some of this has to do with the view that if the Republicans play hardball with Obama he'll cave as he has in the past. Right Strategy/Tactics? We shall see.

You do realize if we get our bond rating lowered a Baby Harp Seal could beat Obama?

 

[Dog Wonder]

Its only class warfare when the vast majority subsidizing the rich ask for something back.

The never ending class warfare, where the rich buys off the government to tilt the rules in its favor, is called business as usual.

 

[tech2101]

The way things are looking the tea party is going to hand the dems the election. If they keep hanging on to their tax dogma, it will be over for them in my opinion.

The tea party is to the Republicans in 2012 what the Green Party was to the Democrats in 2000.

 

[Ms Tree]

You do realize if we get our bond rating lowered a Baby Harp Seal could beat Obama?

That will all depend on who the voters perceive caused/is more to blame for the default. Right now Obama appears to be far more willing to negotiate since he has placed entitlements on the table. The TP/Republicans have not come to the middle of the playing field. They are behaving like petulant children who are not willing to set aside their political aspirations for the good of the country. If that perception continues among the independent voters then the TP/republicans will decrease their likelihood of winning 2012. Protecting the rich and corporations from sharing the tax burden will be their down fall. Even Norquist figured that one out.

 

[SparrowHawk]

That will all depend on who the voters perceive caused/is more to blame for the default. Right now Obama appears to be far more willing to negotiate since he has placed entitlements on the table. The TP/Republicans have not come to the middle of the playing field. They are behaving like petulant children who are not willing to set aside their political aspirations for the good of the country. If that perception continues among the independent voters then the TP/republicans will decrease their likelihood of winning 2012. Protecting the rich and corporations from sharing the tax burden will be their down fall. Even Norquist figured that one out.

That's basic Sales 101, You don't lower your price if you know the customer really needs your product or service.

Second piece is that most people are starting to realize that having a printing press in the basement to print money and buy their way out of debt is not the answer. They haven't gotten around to deciding what they're willing to give up yet. When they do, IMO the TP folks will have to be more inclusive and accept fiscal conservative to a far greater extent than they do now. I wonder if we are in the beginning stages of one of the two parties becoming extinct. If so I think you could present a case against either.

 

[Ms Tree]

I do not know that either will go extinct. I think it is more likely that they will morph into something slightly different. I think the change will be more prevalent in the republicans. I believe that the dems are more centrist/spread out than the republicans. I would like to see the republicans drop the religious right (religion in my opinion has no business in politics) and become a little less right of center. Then I want to see the electoral college eliminated and a real viable third or even forth and fifth parties spring up and give us a real choice. I also want to see real election reform. The politician for hire system we have now is just screwing over the general populace and giving an advantage to corporations.

 

[delldude]

The tea party is to the Republicans in 2012 what the Green Party was to the Democrats in 2000.

I think you underestimate the power of the force.......

 

[Ms Tree]

Depends on who they support. If they do not support the nomination and/or put their own extreme candidate lime Palin on their own ticket then I think the TP will fracture the republican vote. If they support a main stream republican candidate then the republicans could win. I think it will also depend on who the independents hold responsible for the debt issues.