Gripes!

[viggen597]

stewbear .... Im SO sick of all these flight attendants and airline industry people from ''majors'' talkin trash about the low fare carriers. Im not with SWA, im with jetBlue (uh oh, let the trash talkin begin!) .. and we dont say y''all, we say youz guys! So .. SWAFA30 .... go ahead and do your thing! SWA is a FANTASTIC airline and successful for a lot of reasons. SWA is now the 6th largest airline in the US .. count your $$ and dont forget about us lil guys!

So stewbear, what airline DO you work for? My favorite thing you''ve said so far was "we may be losing money(subject to mgt numbers) but we don''t look like fools" ... if only you knew what a fool "yall" really do look like.

ugh ... so my "gripe" then is officially .. people from other airlines who are bitter and cynical and trash talk the SUCCESSFUL airlines.

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On 6/10/2003 12:17:50 AM stewbear wrote:

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On 6/7/2003 9:31:11 PM SWAFA30 wrote:

"Housemother of a Sorority House" huh?

Why the need to resort to name calling? Again, I''m curious...why this hostility towards SWA?

My company''s uniform has well over a dozen different pieces. How do you know which ones I choose to wear to work. Maybe I wear my lettter sweater(assuming that I''m a female) , maybe I wear my shirt, tie, and blazer.

How do you know I''m working for peanuts? Maybe I''m an "A" scale flight attendant that has been at SWA for decades and I''m making a ton of money flying charters at doubletime and have a huge profit sharing account.

Surely you''re not suggesting that no other airline on the planet...even airlines with first and business class...don''t have "smelly passengers". If noone else wants the smelly passengers...send em all to us...their money spends just like everyone else''s!

My professionalism comes from the fact I can render first-aid or command an evacuation and save my passengers life. The quality of my training and my ability to use it has nothing to do with my uniform.

I can only assume that the "y''all" is a dig at the fact that we''re a Texas based airline....isn''t there another airline based in Dallas?.....Oh yeah...American!






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Rah Rah Rah, I wasn''t name calling and you have construed a statement for your own interpretation. I don''t see anyone else whining about stinky pax but your own work group. But if the fares keep going down...I guess we will all know what ya''ll are talking about. You say you have been there for decades,I guess greyhound should be your next stop because the words First, Business, and Class, have never entered your world. So keep on sucking the stench and god help the rest of us. Funny thing is....all the new hires at your "airline" aka Greyhound Air are smart enough to know they are working their butts off and want a piece of the action. Mr. K inspired people...but those days are coming to an end,soon..so spare me the grandiose lovefest and wake up. Your KoolAid days are about to end.I don''t work for AA...so get off of that..but I guess the uniform would be a hell of alot more dignified than the rags ya''all wear.....we may be losing money(subject to mgt numbers) but we don''t look like fools.

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[viggen597]

Chris ... I LOVED your post ... the seatbelt sign phenomenon in my opinion is also city specific ... on jetBlue, the FLL, PBI, and MCO crowds tend to be a lot more ''independant'' then lets say, folks on the LGB-ATL, or JFK-MSY trips. I think that people have a difficult time with authority and in general most pax havent been on our side of the fence. People dont see on a day to day basis what we see and therefore they are involuntarily ignorant to the dangers that be. For example, my pax dont understand sometimes why they have to pay attention to the Exit Row briefing. Or, they dont understand why on takeoff and landing its important to have tray tables and seatbacks up. We know why, they dont. So maybe, instead of forming anti-passenger conventions in our galleys, lets impart some of the information we know to our passengers. (Dont get me wrong, it frustrates the f*ck out of me ... and often times you''ll hear me say "Once again ladies and gentlemen, the FSB sign is STILL illuminated, please remain comfortable seated with your seatbelts securely fastened ....")

As well, as for the SWA bashing, in an industry that is so upside down right now, there is no need to bash anyone''s company (well, maybe except for some good ole AA bashing .. just kidding hehe). As cheesy as it sounds, we all need to stick together. SWA is a great airline with a unique approach to their business, as is jetBlue, as are all airlines. Thats what makes us all great.

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On 7/2/2003 7:06:26 PM firstamendment wrote:

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On 6/19/2003 1:44:50 PM mrman wrote:

"You are willing to work for good will, the other 200,000
airline employees in the US are not."


How then do you explain the long line of people begging for that WN flight attendant job?  Most people enjoy working for a profitable company that does not make them bitter, backs you up stating the customer is not always right, and insures job security.  I am sure those past hot pants/go-go boot wearing, big haired flight attendants are enjoying their profit sharing about now.

MrMan​

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Boys...Girls..relax...it''s a job, not a fraternity or soroity.

I have been a FA or US Airways for 17 years. When I started, my company was laughed at by the big boys but at that time we were the airline darlings, making lots of money and providing the best contract in the industry. Now look. Poor management has ruined what was once a respected airline. Right now SWA is doing something right and good for them. But pray your company goodwill last. One wrong move can bring it all down.

The big boys dropped the ball. Don''t blame SW, JB, and Airtran because of poor management decisions. I would work for SW or JB in a heartbeat...unfortunately when this ride with the airline is over i am moving on. Its been a fun ride but I am 40 and refuse to go back to $25,000.00 ayear.

As far as garbage, they are all the same. A wonderful way of getting even? Carry your bag to that irritating customer and go "your trash,sir? your wife''s trash, too sir?" They''ll be clueless. Babies, they have been acting this way for the 17 years I''ve been working and they will do so for more.

By the way, SWA, just blame us here at US Airways...California, Florida, BWI? They''re our old passengers. Just wait till we give you the PHL and LGA markets....BRACE!!!

chris

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[ArtTang]

My God, what is up with some of you people? Why on Earth would you feel the need to put down the employees of another carrier? Aren't we all in the same industry? I'm amazed by those of you who flippantly write off insults and snide remarks about employees of other carriers. I've been with AA (a major by any definition) for 17 years and I have nothing but respect and a deep sense of comradeship with the folks at Jet Blue & SWA. If they happen to be kicking AA's or UAL's butt right now, I say, "More the power to 'em!". For too many years AA shamelessly manipulated fares and chased smaller carriers out of various markets. Crandall escaped conviction on these charges by the skin of his teeth.
It should be noted that for as long as I've been flying at AA, the company has been known as the 'Nazis of the Sky'. From dictator-like management (which we cannot deny) to ruthless marketing ploys (which we cannot deny), AA has not enjoyed a very warm and fuzzy reputation in the industry. My friends at UAL and SWA have long joked that we AA f/as raise our hands to photos of Crandall in ops (like the Germans would do whenever Hitler paraded the streets) when we sign-in for a trip. Now I know Crandall is gone and it might be politically incorrect to make such light references to the nightmares of Nazism, but the point remains that AA has not been held in very high regard by others in the industry for many years now.
After all that's happened to our industry, I cannot believe that some crewmembers act so callously toward colleagues at other carriers. I don't want to come across as a Pollyanna, but I'd like you guys at SWA and Jet Blue to know that we are not all jerks at AA or at the other "majors". The myopic opinions of some posters on this thread do NOT represent the majority consensus.
By the way, has anyone ever non-reved on Jet Blue? They treat you as if you're one of their own. They are the model for how industry employees should treat one another and we majors could learn a lot from those guys.
As for fares being low and passengers lacking in sophistication, well, welcome to the glamourous world of aviation in the XXI century. It has been increasingly so since I began flying and I am certainly old enough to remember the glory days on Pan Am flying throughout Asia all dressed up in my "travel suit" as a boy. The industry has changed and it ain't goin' back. Market demand drives fares and wages, not SWA or Jet Blue. If somebody doesn't like it, I suggest he move on. We at AA have given up tremendous concessions and to be honest, I do not think the job is worth it anymore. That is why I have made the personal decision to move on. If one chooses to stay, that is a personal decision and it's great. But live with it and work to make it better in future contracts. There is no sense in blaming colleagues at other carriers for the woes of the industry. We majors need to look in the mirror. Employees at AA accepted (albeit under tremendous pressure from the company) the huge wage and work concessions, so AA employees are also guilty of establishing the market VALUE (or lack thereof) of airline jobs. (BTW, I voted against the concessionary contract at AA for many reasons...so don't go accusing me of supporting that mess!).
End of sermon...

 

[tay]

I am a 15 year USAir flight attendant. I wonder with each bid if I will have a job next month. My seniority has eroded, and my airline had nothing but contempt for me and my fellow co workers. I wish that I had a corporate culture like SWA. I admire and applaud your airline.

 

[BlueFlyer21]

While I personally agree that seat belt sign enforcement is an important thing, WAKE UP, the FAA cannot fine *you* 10,000 if some ignorant passenger gets up. The only fine the FAA can PERSONALLY fine you is flying without you Flight Attendant Manual. It is a fee, per leg flown, without your manual.

I love when flight attendants in my breifing tell me "We really need to make sure the bags are under the seats, because I as the lead FA am not going to be fined by the FAA bla bla bla". Um, how about we just make sure the bags are under the seat, because its our job.. not about some lame ass non-existant fine. They feel really stupid when I correct them in front of the entire crew (pilots included) about the scope of the FAA's authority on writing tickets to FA's.

I'd love to hear from someone who has PERSONALLY received a $10,000 fine from the FAA...... it'd make my day.

BlueFlyer21

 

[Bear96]

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On 8/11/2003 1237 AM BlueFlyer21 wrote:

...They feel really stupid when I correct them in front of the entire crew (pilots included)...

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Gee, don't YOU sound like fun to fly with!

 

[BlueFlyer21]

Actually I'm a riot to fly with. I just have no tolerance for people who have been flying for all of 2 years at a startup airline, and think they have this vast experience of flying... when half of the smack they are talking is dead wrong.... that's all.

 

[stewbear]

<blockquote>----------------<BR>On 8/11/2003 1237 AM BlueFlyer21 wrote: <BR><BR>...They feel really stupid when I correct them in front of the entire crew (pilots included)...<BR><BR>----------------</blockquote><BR><BR>Gee, don't YOU sound like fun to fly with!

Hey folks,
You have the wrong person. I keep getting email concerning a statment made by BLUEFLYER21, not me. Please read the messages and quotes a little closer.
Thanks :unsure:

 

[BlueCrew]

UGH. What does this say about us that "GRIPES" is far and away the most read/responded to thread in our forum...?

Just a suggestion...maybe we can put this one to rest and open a thread with more interest and dignity?

 

[jimntx]

My biggest gripe is the blocked aisle. One flight a man had a case completely blocking his aisle, had his feet on it, he was in an aisle seat with 2 children inside...

Can I have an AMEN from the choir!!! What happened to the new rule about 1 (that's ONE) carryon and 1 (that's also ONE) small personal item??? Agents are once again allowing pax to board looking like they are moving the Russian Army. And, I love the argument, "It fit in the overhead bin on my last flight." Judging from the size of some of their carryons, it must have been on a C-135 with the canvas web slings for carryons.

I finally started telling pax that "it is a Federal Air Regulation, and you don't get to pick which ones you obey."

And, don't get me started on cell phones!

 

[skyangelnflight]

as long as everyone is discussing uniforms, or lack of them. . .

I did a study on uniforms. (I was looking for cases to substantiate certain shoes). . .
anyway, I found a lot of interesting info out in cyberland. Here are a few:
1. Shoes flew off f/a's in emergency landings. . .
yet, we can not wear shoes with laces or straps (females)
2. Stockings melted onto skin
3. Bare legs were cut and burned
4. Fabric either melted, or burned
5. Bare arms were cut and burned

There were a lot more but this gives you the idea. Shorts may be fun, but are they safe? Pumps may look stylish, but if they don't stay on your feet what good are they? Our uniforms should look "uniform" but also should protect us.

I know this off topic from the subject, but it seems to have become topic in some of the posts. ff:

 

[Scottiboy]

Okay, I have read this thread! If the traveling public were to read this or have access to how you feel it might do some good. However, as long as we are all kept silent on what it is really like on the plane than all the "behavior" will continue. I once saw two flight attendants in uniform on I think it was Oprah. They made mention of "bad behavior" and I thought to myself "Wow, if only the culprits were to see this show". That is just the thing. We have WAY to many "Nancy Nice" flight attendants out there that just turn a "blind eye" to anything that might involve confrontation. Well, I am diplomatic but I am also VERY Confrontational!!! I am there first and foremost for SAFETY. I was interviewed and Hired because of my ability to make "sound decisions" and that I put SAFETY first. I don't hesitate for a second once someone is aloft from the seat when I am also down for SAFETY, I tell them plainly on the PA SIT DOWN NOW!!! If I am seated and have been instructed by the pilots it has been my personal experience that if a letter gets generated, the company will back my behavior 100%. But, if someone gets injured and I failed to do my job!!!! Then Yes the company is going to be giving some "appropriate" discipline!!! Do not get me wrong, I am all for our respective Unions protecting us from "unjust" levied crap from our companies!! BUT!! The Union also has a BAD EVIL and TWISTED ability to allow or encourage STUPIDITY amongst our ranks! I see it alot where we have "inappropriate" behavior sanctioned by the Union. I have worked on both Regional and Mainline Airlines. I can tell you it is the same everywhere. I can also tell you that the "Stink" "Rudeness" "Blind disregard for Safety" and "poor upbringing for manners" is on all sized planes and for all Livery's. We need to remember that bickering amongst ourselves... and put downs of other airlines and other cultures on them only serves to make the person "dissing" look like the fool in my humble opinion! If you do not like the SWA or the AA or the NWA or the UA or the US ways then shut the hell up and become a paying passenger again. Your opinions are just like everyone else's. I am SICK of hearing everyone complain!! You know, we are ALIVE and we are WORKING!!! We have MANY that have had lives taken from them and jobs taken from them!!! WE that are still working need to be focused on the Behavior that will bring passengers back in droves!!! WE need to be polite and caring toward our sisters and brothers out there!!! In other words QUIT your Whining and DO SOMETHING PROACTIVE!!! Or QUIT working all together because we do not need the negativity!!!! GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! Our Sister's and Brother's on the street would give anything to have what we do!!! Start acting better or completely SHUT UP!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I feel better now!

 

[skycruiser]

The big boys dropped the ball. Don''t blame SW, JB, and Airtran because of poor management decisions. I would work for SW or JB in a heartbeat...unfortunately when this ride with the airline is over i am moving on. Its been a fun ride but I am 40 and refuse to go back to $25,000.00 ayear.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that the big boys dropped the ball. Trying to compare LUV, JBU and TRS cost structure to the large carriers (LUV is actually not small) is never going to be a fair comparison. The major difference it that those three carriers do not operate large aircraft to international destinations (and I do not count Canada and Mexico as international). Seven - fifteen hour flights that span the globe is going to cost you money and the majority of the operational cost is the crew. Twelve flight attendants two pilots and an IRO all make for a nice chunk of change when your flying to Hong Kong. Also do not forget the added expense of business first service. That is what the difference is between the "low-cost" and "major" airlines (yes JBU has first class service and direct TV, wait until they start having to pay the high balloon payment they own on all those fancy new Airbus's and start send them to A, B, and C checks, also the employees are all low seniority pay). Do not be disillusioned by the term "low-cost" either. LUV's marketing groups has done a fantastic job over the years of convincing the public they are the cheapest game around when most of the time they are not. Once you ad all the point-point-point's up one could have paid another airline to get there non-stop for around the same price.

As for the uniform, I have never been one to judge a persons level of professionalism by the way they dress. Again it is all about an image your selling. LUV has survived by being the home town, low-fare, low-cost, have fun airline. They do not fly from EWR-HKG and people are not paying them thousands of dollars for top level service, those passengers that fly southwest know what to expect and they get what they pay for. No frills. Walk into any ARTCC, TRACON, or tower and check out the way the controllers are dressed, you will be hard pressed to find any of them in a three piece wearing a tie, but that does not mean they are not professionals that are executing their position in a very professional manner.

 

[airbound]

after receiving notice from the captain that i needed to tidy up and get sitted early due to turbulence i made the proper announcement...as i was double checking the galley a male PAX got up to use the lav...as he passed i made this statment: the seat belt sign is on, the captain is expecting some rough turbulence please understand that you are up at your own risk. as he deplaned he asked my name which i happily provided to him...a few minutes later the station manager brought me a complaint he wrote on scrap paper....he stated i used 'gestapo' tactics when informing him about the seatbelt sign...it was signed by an army reserve lt.col. with his full name and rank and knowledge of the military (i'm an air force brat) i was able to find his commanding officer and wrote him of this PAX statement...i received an apology from the PAX and his commmanding officer....as i was only doing my job.

i know for a fact that some PAX think we are on an ego trip when ask them to stay seated and belted...but like many of my colleagues i've been through turbulence...it's horrible. and who do you think the PAX blame if something happens to them...the F/A's and then they sue the airline...i.e. Steven Spielberg's sister and niece. How sad people don't want to take resonsibility for their own stupidity!!! :angry:

 

[orangeman]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that the big boys dropped the ball. Trying to compare LUV, JBU and TRS cost structure to the large carriers (LUV is actually not small) is never going to be a fair comparison. The major difference it that those three carriers do not operate large aircraft to international destinations (and I do not count Canada and Mexico as international). Seven - fifteen hour flights that span the globe is going to cost you money and the majority of the operational cost is the crew. Twelve flight attendants two pilots and an IRO all make for a nice chunk of change when your flying to Hong Kong. Also do not forget the added expense of business first service. That is what the difference is between the "low-cost" and "major" airlines (yes JBU has first class service and direct TV, wait until they start having to pay the high balloon payment they own on all those fancy new Airbus's and start send them to A, B, and C checks, also the employees are all low seniority pay). Do not be disillusioned by the term "low-cost" either. LUV's marketing groups has done a fantastic job over the years of convincing the public they are the cheapest game around when most of the time they are not. Once you ad all the point-point-point's up one could have paid another airline to get there non-stop for around the same price.

As for the uniform, I have never been one to judge a persons level of professionalism by the way they dress. Again it is all about an image your selling. LUV has survived by being the home town, low-fare, low-cost, have fun airline. They do not fly from EWR-HKG and people are not paying them thousands of dollars for top level service, those passengers that fly southwest know what to expect and they get what they pay for. No frills. Walk into any ARTCC, TRACON, or tower and check out the way the controllers are dressed, you will be hard pressed to find any of them in a three piece wearing a tie, but that does not mean they are not professionals that are executing their position in a very professional manner.

Skycruiser, I am not a bean counter, yet...it is all about how much it costs to fly an available seat mile vs. how much revenue an airline takes in for that same mile. The difference is the "yield" and hopefully it is positive. The "yield" importance is not discriminate as to length of flight. Wages, Fuel and all are included in the cost. If the fare per ASM doesn't support the cost per ASM? It's about the business model and what the revenue is on each flight. Cost vs. Revenue is the key and this is the same regardless of the length of flight.
Long haul, bigger a/c, large hubs etc. drive up the costs. Hence, larger fares are necessary to make this profitable. If this airline doesn't have sufficient "yield" domestically, the bottom line suffers. I don't pretend to know it all, yet this is my take!!!

Chris