How about another "Occupy" protest

[Dog Wonder]

Is government closing on Saturday an endorsement of Judaism?

 

[delldude]

Is government closing on Saturday an endorsement of Judaism?

Government not normally open weekends....Obama has to golf or campaign.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Is government closing on Saturday an endorsement of Judaism?

Could be! It could also be closed on Saturday for the Seventh Day Adventist's

 

[Ms Tree]

I mean if you want a totally secular society then why do most government agencies close for Christmas?

Because most people in the country are Christian and because it has been done this way for ages. When I lived in Miami the schools I went to pretty much shut down for the Jewish high holidays. That does not mean it's right just that this is what was practical.

Odd that the founders did not even mention god in the COTUS if that is all that they were afraid of.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Because most people in the country are Christian and because it has been done this way for ages. When I lived in Miami the schools I went to pretty much shut down for the Jewish high holidays. That does not mean it's right just that this is what was practical.

Odd that the founders did not even mention god in the COTUS if that is all that they were afraid of.

By most historical accounts of the time they were way beyond scared. They were near paranoid of the specter of a Theocracy. Most, if not all came from various religious backgrounds and suffered untold persecutions for their defiance of the Church of England. They did NOT want anything in any of the founding documents that had even a whiff or hint of a Church controlled government.

What we as a society have missed IMO is that to live truly free you have to accept risk.

The even more important piece is we really like the Freedom & Liberty side of the coin but boyo boyo do we fight the Responsibility & Accountability side.

Putting a Nativity scene on the front lawn of the local Courthouse to reflect the views of the majority of the citizens of that community isn't state religion or the beginnings of a Theocracy anymore than a menorah is, or having me stand in a garage would make me a car. Where the line is crossed is when you're required to genuflect in front of the Nativity Scene by the government.

 

[Veritas]

I mean if you want a totally secular society then why do most government agencies close for Christmas?

In Ganulin v. United States, the judge held that the courts have repeatedly recognized that the Christmas holiday has become largely secularized and that by giving federal employees a paid vacation day on Christmas, the government was doing no more than recognizing the cultural significance of the holiday.

The judge held that "The court has found legitimate secular purposes for establishing Christmas as a legal public holiday." "When the government decides to recognize Christmas Day as a public holiday, it does no more than accommodate the calendar of public activities to the plain fact that many Americans will expect on that day to spend time visiting with their families, attending religious services, and perhaps enjoying some respite from pre-holiday activities."

"Ganulin (the plaintiff) and his family have the freedom to celebrate, or not celebrate, the religious and secular aspects of the holiday as they see fit," the judge added "The court simply does not believe that declaring Christmas to be a legal public holiday impermissibly imposes Christian beliefs on non-adherents in a way that violates the right to freedom of association."

This decision follows a long line of precedents which have held that, so long as the government is able to articulate an acceptable secular purpose for its actions, it may adopt a fundamentally religious holiday as an official state holiday for all government employees.

 

[SparrowHawk]

In Ganulin v. United States, the judge held that the courts have repeatedly recognized that the Christmas holiday has become largely secularized and that by giving federal employees a paid vacation day on Christmas, the government was doing no more than recognizing the cultural significance of the holiday.

The judge held that "The court has found legitimate secular purposes for establishing Christmas as a legal public holiday." "When the government decides to recognize Christmas Day as a public holiday, it does no more than accommodate the calendar of public activities to the plain fact that many Americans will expect on that day to spend time visiting with their families, attending religious services, and perhaps enjoying some respite from pre-holiday activities."

"Ganulin (the plaintiff) and his family have the freedom to celebrate, or not celebrate, the religious and secular aspects of the holiday as they see fit," the judge added "The court simply does not believe that declaring Christmas to be a legal public holiday impermissible imposes Christian beliefs on non-adherents in a way that violates the right to freedom of association."

This decision follows a long line of precedents which have held that, so long as the government is able to articulate an acceptable secular purpose for its actions, it may adopt a fundamentally religious holiday as an official state holiday for all government employees.

I knew that! Just not the particulars, Thanks for the case law it is appreciated.

This should lay to rest a great deal of the ongoing debate regarding what is permissible and what isn't.

 

[Ms Tree]

This case law seems to be quite narrow in its scope. This does not apply to a nativity scene or a Menorah.

 

[delldude]

This case law seems to be quite narrow in its scope. This does not apply to a nativity scene or a Menorah.

Like I previously stated......this church and state crap has and is perverted .

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

A Christian statue on federal land is by no means a government establishment of religion. Did Congress pass a law anytime stating that so and so religion is the US Congress decreed by law religion that is the only approved religion and all shall subscribe to this religion?

 

[Ms Tree]

I disagree. First of all taxes should not be used by the state for anything that does not benefit the state. Secondly, why should I have to pay taxes to support things I do not believe? Third, given that nearly all the displays are Christian how do you think that makes people feel who are not Christian?

The courts have said that there is a separation between religion and state. You'll need to take it up with them.

 

[southwind]

I disagree. First of all taxes should not be used by the state for anything that does not benefit the state. Secondly, why should I have to pay taxes to support things I do not believe? Third, given that nearly all the displays are Christian how do you think that makes people feel who are not Christian?

The courts have said that there is a separation between religion and state. You'll need to take it up with them.

But it's ok for me to pay taxes towards legal battles concerning same sex marriaged, that I might not support, I take it ! :blink:

 

[delldude]

I disagree. First of all taxes should not be used by the state for anything that does not benefit the state. Secondly, why should I have to pay taxes to support things I do not believe? Third, given that nearly all the displays are Christian how do you think that makes people feel who are not Christian?

The courts have said that there is a separation between religion and state. You'll need to take it up with them.

Well you're a big supporter of COTUS......and clearly there has been no law endorsing a religion by the US government, so these issues clearly must be unconstitutional.

And this is a fed issue, not state.

Your taxes are supporting killing by the military.

Your taxes are supporting crony capitalism.

Activist judges come to mind by chance?

 

[Ms Tree]

But it's ok for me to pay taxes towards legal battles concerning same sex marriaged, that I might not support, I take it ! :blink:

The marriage is an equality issue. Same as equal rigjts for minorities, women. ..Etc.

 

[xUT]

The marriage is an equality issue. Same as equal rigjts for minorities, women. ..Etc.

Which is your opinion. Not fact.

 

[Ms Tree]

Which is your opinion. Not fact.

No. An opinion would be whether or not you think people of the same gender should be allowed to marry. It is a fact that this is about equal rights. There is a segment of society who do not have the same rights as others. That is a fact.