How long are you really a Reserve in the East?

[WCT]

I am just curious. Can someone give light on this subject. How long are you on Reserve in the East? All bases. On the West we get that dumba$$ newsletter for all flight attendants, and there is a section: "Where would you fit in?" Block, Secondary block. What are the differences? On the West we have Regular line holder, Regular relief holder, blank relief holder, then RSV. We hear some many whacked out stories of RSV on the East. Are you really on Reserve that long???? Thanks. 😀

 

[BoeingBoy]

The quick and dirty answer is that if you can't hold either a primary or secondary block, you're a reserve.

Jim

 

[WCT]

The quick and dirty answer is that if you can't hold either a primary or secondary block, you're a reserve.

Jim

Thanks for the quick and dirty answer Jim, but that still doesn't answer my question. 😉

 

[BoeingBoy]

Oh - I though you had the hire dates necessary to hold a primary or secondary block in the East bases.....
Since I don't have the inflight newsletter in front of me, I don't have those either so can't give you the number of years.

Jim

 

[WCT]

Oh - I though you had the hire dates necessary to hold a primary or secondary block in the East bases.....
Since I don't have the inflight newsletter in front of me, I don't have those either so can't give you the number of years.

Jim

I am a Regular Line Holder on the West. They don't give numbers on the newsletter, just hire dates.

 

[BoeingBoy]

First, the primary and secondary blockholder refers to the bidding process - both are blockholders, but one gets the block in the primary phase of the bidding and the other gets the block in the secondary phase. Generally, though, the more senior will get a block in the primary phase while the secondary blocks will go more junior.

So if you know the hire date of the junior secondary blockholder in a base (I think that's the hire date they give in the newsletter), everyone junior to that (hired later) is a reserve (although LODO's may be different - didn't have pilot LODO's....). So just making up dates, if the junior secondary blockholder in CLT was hired on 8/1/1990 anyone with less than 17 years would be reserve. They may not have been reserve the whole time due to the cycles of growth followed by downsizing, but they would be a reserve currently.

With the multiple bases the DOH of the junior blockholder will be different from base to base. PIT probably has the reserve with the most longevity because of all the cuts there, while LGA/BOS reserves probably have the least longevity - but that's just guessing on my part.

Jim

 

[WCT]

First, the primary and secondary blockholder refers to the bidding process - both are blockholders, but one gets the block in the primary phase of the bidding and the other gets the block in the secondary phase. Generally, though, the more senior will get a block in the primary phase while the secondary blocks will go more junior.

So if you know the hire date of the junior secondary blockholder in a base (I think that's the hire date they give in the newsletter), everyone junior to that (hired later) is a reserve (although LODO's may be different - didn't have pilot LODO's....). So just making up dates, if the junior secondary blockholder in CLT was hired on 8/1/1990 anyone with less than 17 years would be reserve. They may not have been reserve the whole time due to the cycles of growth followed by downsizing, but they would be a reserve currently.

With the multiple bases the DOH of the junior blockholder will be different from base to base. PIT probably has the reserve with the most longevity because of all the cuts there, while LGA/BOS reserves probably have the least longevity - but that's just guessing on my part.

Jim

Thanks Jim. Our Relief system is basically the same as secondary block. The more senior holds a Regular Relief line, meaning you bid and hold certain days off and bulid your line based on your seniority, the blank relief holder gets whatever the company wants to give them based on staffing.

 

[BoeingBoy]

In the East, the secondary blocks are "real" blocks with trips already in them. After the primary blocks are awarded, they take the open trips that were left over when the primary blocks were built or that were dropped by primary blockholders due to vacation/training/etc and build secondary blocks. Then those blocks are put out for bid as the second phase of bidding - hence secondary blocks. As I said, at the end of the day both primary and secondary blocks are the same - a schedule of trips for the month that the F/A's (and pilots) bid on. The only difference is the phase of bidding they were awarded in.

After that, reserve lines are put out for bid, usually with only days off in them I think. It's gotten so convoluted over the years that monthly bidding lasts about a month start to finish.

Jim

 

[WCT]

In the East, the secondary blocks are "real" blocks with trips already in them. After the primary blocks are awarded, they take the open trips that were left over when the primary blocks were built or that were dropped by primary blockholders due to vacation/training/etc and build secondary blocks. Then those blocks are put out for bid as the second phase of bidding - hence secondary blocks. As I said, at the end of the day both primary and secondary blocks are the same - a schedule of trips for the month that the F/A's (and pilots) bid on. The only difference is the phase of bidding they were awarded in.

After that, reserve lines are put out for bid, usually with only days off in them I think. It's gotten so convoluted over the years that monthly bidding lasts about a month start to finish.

Jim

That is exactly the same system we had on the West before our first contract. The secondary block, relief, was a second schedule for fa's to bid on. I really miss that bid. Our relief is so frustating now, and only guarantees days off, trips are rewarded by what you can hold during the time of relief bulid up. Of course it runs by seniority. Confusing. :blink:

 

[2clippedwings]

What I've pasted below will show you the hire date of the most Junior secondary line holder for July, August and Sept 07. Anyone below this, like Jim explained, is on reserve.

From the HUB.
Most Junior Line Holder Reports

This report is updated after each Primary & Secondary line closing. It is always accessible from the Forms & Publications Menu.


JULY 07, Most Jr Secondary Line Holder

BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
219
5613
90101
15-Aug-99


CLT
1283
3981
75043 26-Jun-89
Non-Lodo

DCA
381
5363
86727
21-Mar-99


LGA
182
5719
91003
26-Sep-99


PHL
2272
5040
84203
19-Apr-98
Non-Lodo

PIT
375
2079
16274
16-Jul-84



August 2007 Most Jr Secondary Line Holder

BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
224
5651
90473
29-Aug-99


CLT
1268
3904
74859
29-May-89
Non-Lodo

DCA
388
5349
86727 21-Mar-99


LGA
187
5705
91013 29-Sep-99


PHL
2254
5012
42049 19-Apr-98
Non-Lodo

PIT
389
2190
57895 03-Mar-85



SEPTEMBER 07, Most Jr Secondary Line Holder

BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
221
5571
80542
15-Aug-99


CLT
1234
3794
57757 24-Apr-89
Non-Lodo

DCA
371
5172
85495 01-Nov-98


LGA
166
5339
86783 21-Mar-99

PHL
2247
4971
84147 19-Apr-98
Non-Lodo

PIT
342
1865
15744 02-Jan-84

 

[BoeingBoy]

What I've pasted below .....

So it ranges between about 8 years to hold a block in BOS to nearly 24 years to hold a block in PIT......

Jim

 

[2clippedwings]

So it ranges between about 8 years to hold a block in BOS to nearly 24 years to hold a block in PIT......

Jim

Amazing, isn't it? Reserve is broken.
Nothing that can't be fixed though........

 

[BoeingBoy]

Reserve is definitely broken, but much of the reason for the high longevity for reserves is shrinking the airline 50%. Fixing the reserve system will make life easier for those on reserve, but only growth will fix the longevity issue (or a rotating reserve system will give some relief).

Jim

 

[WCT]

What are the primary block holder's seniority in all bases? So is it better to be on RSV in most East stations rather a Secondary line holder? We hear on the West you have to have 20yrs seniority to hold a block in PHL, CLT? Someone claify? :unsure:

 

[2clippedwings]

What are the primary block holder's seniority in all bases? So is it better to be on RSV in most East stations rather a Secondary line holder? We hear on the West you have to have 20yrs seniority to hold a block in PHL, CLT? Someone claify? :unsure:

Most Junior Line Holder Reports

This report is updated after each Primary & Secondary line closing. It is always accessible from the Forms & Publications Menu.


July 2007 Most Jr Primary Line Holder

BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
173
4626
49120
19-Feb-96


CLT
1029
3021
61385
27-Jul-87 Non-Lodo

DCA
283
4150
37359
10-Jul-89

LGA
148
5211
89111
27-OCT-98


PHL
1922
4351
41702
15-Jan-90
Non-Lodo

PIT
258
1312
13210
27-Apr-81


August 2007 Most Jr Primary Line Holder
BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
173
4587
49073
19-Feb-96


CLT
1016
2998
21923 06-Jul-87
Non-Lodo
DCA
292
4274
39525 18-Sep-89


LGA
150
5194
89072 27-Oct-98


PHL
1983
4475
46224 24-May-93
Non-Lodo

PIT
265
1321
13333 01-Jun-81



September 2007 Most Jr Primary Line Holder

BASE
BASE SEN.#
SYS. SEN. #
EMP. #
LAST L/H SID


BOS
172
4559
49073
19-Feb-96


CLT
1002
2940
63643
29-Jun-87
Non-Lodo

DCA
280
4061
75358
03-Jul-89


LGA
142
5047
84733
12-Jul-98


PHL
1943
4385
45321
16-Nov-92
Non-Lodo

PIT
284
1424
13595
09-Nov-81