IAM Fleet Service topic 12/23-

[goodfellow]

For you guys who want to do this one in a bin thing I sort of understand where you are comming from but that doesn't change the fact that it's just plain stupid. Keep doing it & I don't care how young you are you WILL get hurt. I would almost be willing to bet they will deny your workmans comp & will say you were not working safe.

You all need to listen to people who've been doing this awhile.

I used to be one of the I can do it by myself idiot's! All it got me was two ruptured discs in my back! Guess what? Useless airways denied my claim!!! Good thing for representation, I won my case and less 20 percent was paid for my time off. So to you members that wan't to play golf or tennis or do anything physical after retirement, start working Smarter and not Harder. As for Jester and any other suck up to the company member, knock your socks off. You may even get a GET WELL card from your wonderful company? So says GF

 

[Jester]

GF,

Actually, before I started this job so many years ago, I had a stiff or sore back on a regular basis. But the body is like sex, either use it or lose it. My back has never been better or stronger, and sure, strains and pulls do happen, but they happen even on the most professionally managed work-out programs as muscle development demands the tearing and re-building of tissue. As the saying goes, "No Pain, No Gain." You want to enjoy your Golden Years, then best to work your body in your younger years. Clearly, there are some people who should not be in the bins as they are barely heavier than the bags, but it is also a matter of proper lifting and stretching beforehand.

Furthermore, if stupidity was a justification for denying workers comp claims, then few would ever get paid given some of inane things I have seen people have do while being injured. Not wearing steel-toed shoes would be a prime example of stupidity only to have their toes broken by a cart full of bags passing by.

So Relates Jester.

 

[goodfellow]

Jester, steeltoe shoes have contributed to more loss of apendidges (namely toes than any other reason in industrie accidents!) Steel toe shoes cause more amputeeism when feet are crushed than regular boots or shoes. Don't believe me then google it. I have worked in the airline industrie for almost 30 years, and worked inthe steel industrie for 4 years. Steel toe shoes don't work. As far as wanting to enjoy my golden years, I can't because my 401K is not OK. And Jerkoffs that have their lipps attached to the companies arse like (well you know) will never see the reality of corporate GREED!!!!

 

[Jester]

Actually, steel toe shoes save feet. Your view was tested on "Mythbusters" a couple of years ago (and it is still being broadcasted in re-runs) under some fairly controlled and realistic scenerios, and without a doubt it was far better to have that protection. There have been very few examples of the shell curling under and scrimping-off the toes, but it is doubtful, the toes would have survived regardless. In fact, ceramic shells probably offer the best of both worlds in providing protection from modest weights of a few thousand pounds, but shattering and breaking under extreme weights which prevent the possiblity of the shell curling under.

So no steel toes while working around heavy equipment and still invested heavily in stocks as you approached retirement? Those just add to "some of inane things I have seen people do" stories in my life.

So Reviews Jester.

 

[famousfreddie]

Jester you got to kidding us right? Are you for real or do you really believe this. Even under the most modest of impacts steel toes are not going to stop injuries. In reality bag tractors weigh 5-8 thousand pounds, aircraft weigh 70-120 thousand and pushback tractors weigh 60-80 thousand. The steel toe is only designed to protect against a falling object weighing under 100 pounds. Steel toes are just like motor cycle helmets, protect against minor impacts anything major is traumatic. It doesn't matter if you are wearing steel toes or not if injured on the job workers comp will cover and if they deny the claim, contact an lawyer. Now with that said. I would like to cover some of your previous posts. Most of us are in it for the money and it is not a benefit sideline job. We are going to continue to grind away at management until it is a viable occupation once again. Jester look at your paycheck does it have HERO differential pay. You talk about shortstacking with the handles facing out. Unloading using the handles is wrong. You should not use the handles as it will leave your hand deformed over the longrun as you will not be able to fully extend your fingers. Use both hands to unload and slide it to your bin partner. You referred to the Southwest guy, my estimate in 5yrs he will be crippled in the shoulders and suffer probable back injuries. We work in one of the most hazardous indrusties in the world. 25 workers per thousand are injured every year. Coal miners are a fraction on that as well as railroads. Why is that Jester? What was that, I didn't hear you! I didn't think you could answer that. The answer is that management uses it workers like disposable paper towels and it is attitudes like yours that continues the cycle and gets people hurt. The best shape you have ever been it. I would believe you have not been doing it for very long and are looking for short cuts to enhance your break time. We are paid by the hour and not the piece. Perhaps if you want paid by piece you should come to Washington and cut cedar shingles for a living and leave the airline industry to people who care about the safety of co workers and passengers.

 

[Harry Callahan]

This is not meant as a personal attack but from reading Jesters posts I see him as a management suck up. I'm about ready to put him on ignore.

 

[ChockJockey]

If a 25-ton push tug runs over my toes, whether or not the boots were steeled will make as much difference as would them having been painted orange. Even so, at one pound less than the weight it would take to curl the steel, how would unprotected feet fare? For those things I often handle that are less than 100 lbs. and may fall a few feet to my toes (bags, cargo, mail), I wear steel toes. Not to mention scrapes, stubs, and bumps that would ordinarily vex my little piggies. But that's just me; they're not mandatory (anymore) so if people have their reasons for not wearing them then they have their reasons.

I just wonder about the kneepads. I thought the contract said we were to be supplied kneepads? <_<

Regarding the supposed inevitability of injury during solo bin loading/unloading: I think there's no denying the risk inherent in it though I submit that as long as a person knows his or her abilities and limits, and is smart about how they're doing it, there's no certainty that he or she will become injured. I think about a guy I worked a flight with tonight: he's in his late 60's, skinny as a rail, curses like a sailor, smokes like a chimney, prefers to load and unload by himself unless it's a bigger plane and stacked deep (like most of us). He can do this because he knows what his body can do and doesn't push it and because he paces himself. And he's not the only older guy like this; there are dudes that will curse you out for trying to get in their bin if you think they need help and don't ask them. There are dudes that you know not to ever ask if they need help.

Also worth mentioning are a few of the string beans out there that look as though they have no place on the ramp yet stack 150 in the aft bin alone and standing up and make it look easy.

Now am I a "management suck-up" for having this kind of attitude? I don't think so; I'm regularly offered help when I'm in the bin and I usually refuse it, not because I think it will please my supervisor but because I prefer to do it on my own. Thinking about it, most of our sup's would prefer there be two of us in the bin for heavy ups and downs, but they let us make that choice on our own. As for sucking up to management, few here do it because, honestly, there's nothing one can really get out it; you'll still have to do the same amount of work as before and if you screw up you're still in as much trouble. I know what I'm doing and I'm serious about getting the flights out right and on time; that's worked for me better than has any kind of upsucking not just here but in every job I've ever had.

This said, one thing I won't do in the bin alone is stack/unstack and scan the bags. That I'd consider far less safe and it pisses me off because it messes up my rhythm. Anybody not at the top or bottom of the belt handling bags that wants to scan can scan all they want...

 

[doing it on my knees]

Wow, a debate about steel toes? Sad, very sad.
I'm sure steel toes have saved a bunch of toes, but when we are all buying our Steel toes at walmart for $19.43 or whatever they cost now, how secure can you really feel in them? Always being aware of your surroundings is the safest way to save all of your appendages.

So flies my two cents--

 

[bagchucker]

Chock Jock...

YES, we are supposed to be provided kneepads now. The station I am at is now providing us with knee pads, so push your mgmt team a little harder to procure them for you all. ( I see you are from PHX... I can see you all "checking them out from UDO" used and what not)

As for the steel toes, I used to wear them and do not anymore. There were 3 times when I did wear them that I was glad I had them on when the tongue of the cart fell directly onto my toe region of my boots. I now wear a "work" boot. No steel toe, but durable and well made (Wolverine).

 

[orioleman]

O-man was in PHX last year during the crossover of the West leads learning the East system... he was Sudoku boy much of the time. I am sure in-between games right now, he is feverishly looking through the new CBA to find the non-existant sick policy as I asked him two days ago.

So Concurs Jester.

Geez , Jester thats the best you can do . Still trying to figure out if I do puzzles or not

from 2 years ago. I guess I work in BWI too. As far as the CBA I never said the attendance

was in MY contract . YOU did. But that has Nothing to do with the up coming arbritration case.

You just don't understand what was violated and I for one am not going to help the company out

on this one . So if inquiring minds want to know educate yourself on the WHOLE CONTRACT .

and how it is administered . I usually don't advocate this type of work ethic. but If you want to

continue to put yourself at risk to injury than by all means do what management wants .

OOOOOOOOOh and when they decide to CUT jobs in PHX and Management see's how hard there

working ants work alone in the bins GUESS where the cuts will be coming from . Don't think it will

happen . well been there done that.

 

[ChockJockey]

As far as the CBA I never said the attendance

was in MY contract . YOU did. But that has Nothing to do with the up coming arbritration case.

You just don't understand what was violated and I for one am not going to help the company out

on this one . So if inquiring minds want to know educate yourself on the WHOLE CONTRACT .

and how it is administered .

I believe this topic is already in discussion here.

I usually don't advocate this type of work ethic. but If you want to

continue to put yourself at risk to injury than by all means do what management wants .

OOOOOOOOOh and when they decide to CUT jobs in PHX and Management see's how hard there

working ants work alone in the bins GUESS where the cuts will be coming from . Don't think it will

happen . well been there done that.

I have difficulty subscribing to the notion that the union is always infallible and altruistic and that the company is always evil and incorrect. I'm sorry but I don't see management wringing their hands evil-ly and laughing ominously at us being alone in the bin.

Here's a delightful story: I'm working a gate with my team lead and a young green vest (new hire). We offloaded an inbound and then got ready to load it. The outbound had about 100 bags, all going into the back. Since I prefer to be in the bin and the new hire didn't seem all to crazy about handling bags I was going to go into the bin to load it.

TL: "Wait."

Me: <_<

TL: "He's gonna load it. Close up the front and do the water. He's got to get used to the bin."

Me: <_< 🙄

Because in PHX this is how you learn if the ramp is for you or not. This is where a new hire decides if he likes the bin or would rather be on a tug, or behind a belt or conveyor. That's how I learned, in the Phoenix summer. The work ethic and the physical strength and confidence I've built is, to me, worth the risk; and if I hurt myself and have to go back to a desk job that pays a lot more then, well, it's not the worst that can happen.

Oh, and the team lead in the above story: a shop steward.

Oh, and the green vest in the above story: he's got his first year under his belt and has become a solid ramper.

As I said, this isn't a union/management issue to us, it's cultural. Browbeating people and calling them foolish and wrong without taking into account how different their life and environment is to yours doesn't get one very far on the diplomacy side. I'm not trying to invalidate your opinions or slam the way you do it, I'm just trying to explain my reasoning for doing what I do.

 

[robbedagain]

yesterday we took a 6 minute hit on our outbound PHX flight because to load the A-319, it was myself and one other guy. On the CLT flight they had 3 men, but one got hurt when his tug suddenly went out of wack and hit a wall by our smoking break room and put a hole in the wall. He was hurt but not as bad as it could have been.
We took the 6 in hit on PHX because we were using that scanner for each bag. I believe the Bag make up room should use it to scan bags prior to bringing it out to a/c.

 

[goodfellow]

I believe this topic is already in discussion here.




I have difficulty subscribing to the notion that the union is always infallible and altruistic and that the company is always evil and incorrect. I'm sorry but I don't see management wringing their hands evil-ly and laughing ominously at us being alone in the bin.

Just get hurt while working alone in the bin! The company has manpower schematics on each type of aircraft and how many workers are to be in the aircraft as well as the total number of workers to be actively working the flt.

 

[Jester]

ChockJockey,

I give you credit as you understand the cultural issues that divide the East vs. West ramp mentality and express the West point of view very accurately.

Personally, I honestly think East guys here will argue every point just to be contrairian. Who in their right mind would ever think it is more safe not to have steel-toed shoes working around heavy equipment or would prefer NOT to use handles to remove bags from a stack? Talk about the "Bizarro World" from DC Comics where the Bizarro Code states "Us do opposite of all Earthly things! Us hate beauty! Us love ugliness! Is big crime to make anything perfect on Bizarro World!" (and might I add, "Us loves grabbing bags by wheels! Us hates protected toes!")

As the East guys seem to think steel toes are rated for only around 100 pounds, I have an old pair of steel toes and as a test I will drive a push tug's tires over a steel toe shoe and report back to the board. I'll avoid using my own toes, but maybe a fresh egg instead.

So Experiments Jester.

 

[JoeDirt]

DO NOT use the handles of the luggage to unload or load the bins. Doing so will eventually lead to the development of tendonitis. It is a repetitive motion injury that is very painful and completely avoidable if the proper techniques are used in the bins.



So Advises Joe