IAM Query

[UAL_TECH]

How will you handle the transition to AMFA?
Hopefully, you will not trash the offices, and burn records that we need to help our ‘Brothers & Sisters’ grievances, and keep records in tact. Please remember, we didn’t vote you out personally, just the group that you answer to. We are still the same people that you promised to represent, just with a different representative. I understand that there are many ‘local’ rep’s that are stuck with the IAM, and will not step up to the plate to do the fine job of representation that you have done in the past due to some ties that you had with the IAM.
If your loyalty to the IAM is greater than your dedication to your
‘Brothers & Sisters’ then you were self-serving to begin with, and are of no great loss.
Think about it!!!
Take Care,
UT

 

[Boeingbender]

Transition? A bit early aren''t we?

More to the point, your assertion that the reps and stewards would damage the people that we have represented against management is typical AMFA. You insult us and then expect us to serve unselfishly. Step up to the plate yourself. I was a steward for almost 4 years to help fight UAL''s abuse not to serve any particular union. Never again. I tired of fighting management with one hand and pulling the knives of my fellow AMT''s out of my back with the other. Self-preservation not selfishness drives me from any involvement. Most people who were willing to serve have already done so - good luck finding more.

 

[ual747mech]

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On 7/4/2003 7:38:49 PM Boeingbender wrote:

Transition? A bit early aren''t we?

More to the point, your assertion that the reps and stewards would damage the people that we have represented against management is typical AMFA. You insult us and then expect us to serve unselfishly. Step up to the plate yourself. I was a steward for almost 4 years to help fight UAL''s abuse not to serve any particular union. Never again. I tired of fighting management with one hand and pulling the knives of my fellow AMT''s out of my back with the other. Self-preservation not selfishness drives me from any involvement. Most people who were willing to serve have already done so - good luck finding more.

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Yea, lets see who will step up to the plate. If the same people who thought we were going to do better in bankruptcy court, good luck to us. Boeingbender thx for volunteering to serve us for you are not the problem, it''s the IAM system. Also, management was the main culprit for the problems United incurred. I''ve met knowledgeable shop stewards and shop stewards who wasn''t really into it(I think they were involuntarily voted in) and didn''t care or really know how to deal with the problems presented to them.

Also, I agree with you that it''s too early to tell if Amfa will be the winner. For all we know, we might not even have a union after everything is done because of not enough people voting. I don''t think that will happen but I''ve seen stranger things happen🙂

 

[tug_slug]

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On 7/5/2003 3:39:47 PM ual747mech wrote:

[SIZE= 10.5pt][/SIZE]
Also, management was the main culprit for the problems United incurred. I''ve met knowledgeable shop stewards and shop stewards who wasn''t really into it (I think they were involuntarily voted in) and didn''t care or really know how to deal with the problems presented to them

-----------


​

Let''s say AMFA is voted in, how is that going to make things better at United if the shop stewards that are representing don''t know what their doing? Or is it assumed that because there''s going to be a different union on the property things are going to change so drastically everyone and their brother will want to be a shop steward?
Its to bad you mechanics at United don''t have more time till the vote, its going to be interesting to see how AMFA handles the situation at Northwest now that their asking their unions for $950 million in concessions. IMO if AMFA stands up to the NW chances every airline mechanic in the industry will be an AMFA member BUT if AMFA caves in not only will you have the same problems that you had with the IAM but a whole new set of problems that''ll come with AMFA representing you. The times they are a chang''n
Best of luck
Tug

 

[delldude]

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On 7/7/2003 9:08:24 PM tug_slug wrote:

----------------
On 7/5/2003 3:39:47 PM ual747mech wrote:

Also, management was the main culprit for the problems United incurred. I''ve met knowledgeable shop stewards and shop stewards who wasn''t really into it (I think they were involuntarily voted in) and didn''t care or really know how to deal with the problems presented to them

-----------


​

Let''s say AMFA is voted in, how is that going to make things better at United if the shop stewards that are representing don''t know what their doing? Or is it assumed that because there''s going to be a different union on the property things are going to change so drastically everyone and their brother will want to be a shop steward?
Its to bad you mechanics at United don''t have more time till the vote, its going to be interesting to see how AMFA handles the situation at Northwest now that their asking their unions for $950 million in concessions. IMO if AMFA stands up to the NW chances every airline mechanic in the industry will be an AMFA member BUT if AMFA caves in not only will you have the same problems that you had with the IAM but a whole new set of problems that''ll come with AMFA representing you. The times they are a chang''n
Best of luck
Tug

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better yet...what if the only people to step up to the plate are the same ones who did so for the IAM?i see a wanton lack of wishing to get involved and pass the blame where i am(IAM)

 

[UAL_TECH]

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On 7/7/2003 11:01:52 PM delldude wrote:

----------------
On 7/7/2003 9:08:24 PM tug_slug wrote:

----------------
On 7/5/2003 3:39:47 PM ual747mech wrote:

Also, management was the main culprit for the problems United incurred. I''ve met knowledgeable shop stewards and shop stewards who wasn''t really into it (I think they were involuntarily voted in) and didn''t care or really know how to deal with the problems presented to them

-----------


​

Let''s say AMFA is voted in, how is that going to make things better at United if the shop stewards that are representing don''t know what their doing? Or is it assumed that because there''s going to be a different union on the property things are going to change so drastically everyone and their brother will want to be a shop steward?
Its to bad you mechanics at United don''t have more time till the vote, its going to be interesting to see how AMFA handles the situation at Northwest now that their asking their unions for $950 million in concessions. IMO if AMFA stands up to the NW chances every airline mechanic in the industry will be an AMFA member BUT if AMFA caves in not only will you have the same problems that you had with the IAM but a whole new set of problems that''ll come with AMFA representing you. The times they are a chang''n
Best of luck
Tug

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better yet...what if the only people to step up to the plate are the same ones who did so for the IAM?i see a wanton lack of wishing to get involved and pass the blame where i am(IAM)

----------------​

FYI, there are numerous people willing to ''step up to the plate''.
I (for one) will be involved in the process, and I am encouraging my peers to do likewise.
As I have said before, we have some ''very'' dedicated IAM local reps that I respect, and hope will continue to work with (for) us. However, there are the ''hard liners'' that spout IAM rehetoric, even when it''s BS!!! (and they know it). When all is said and done, if I were to be in ''fear'' of my losing my position, I would be in more fear of the IAM than I am of management.

IMHO,
UT

 

[Boeingbender]

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On 7/8/2003 2:58:54 AM UAL_TECH wrote:

----------------
On 7/7/2003 11:01:52 PM delldude wrote:

----------------
On 7/7/2003 9:08:24 PM tug_slug wrote:

----------------
On 7/5/2003 3:39:47 PM ual747mech wrote:

Also, management was the main culprit for the problems United incurred.  I''ve met knowledgeable shop stewards and shop stewards who wasn''t really into it (I think they were involuntarily voted in) and didn''t care or really know how to deal with the problems presented to them

-----------


​

Let''s say AMFA is voted in, how is that going to make things better at United if the shop stewards that are representing don''t know what their doing? Or is it assumed that because there''s going to be a different union on the property things are going to change so drastically everyone and their brother will want to be a shop steward?
Its to bad you mechanics at United don''t have more time till the vote, its going to be interesting to see how AMFA handles the situation at Northwest now that their asking their unions for $950 million in concessions. IMO if AMFA stands up to the NW chances every airline mechanic in the industry will be an AMFA member BUT if AMFA caves in not only will you have the same problems that you had with the IAM but a whole new set of problems that''ll come with AMFA representing you. The times they are a chang''n
Best of luck
Tug

----------------​

better yet...what if the only people to step up to the plate are the same ones who did so for the IAM?i see a wanton lack of wishing to get involved and pass the blame where i am(IAM)

----------------​

FYI, there are numerous people willing to ''step up to the plate''.
I (for one) will be involved in the process, and I am encouraging my peers to do likewise.
As I have said before, we have some ''very'' dedicated IAM local reps that I respect, and hope will continue to work with (for) us.  However, there are the ''hard liners'' that spout IAM rehetoric, even when it''s BS!!! (and they know it).  When all is said and done, if I were to be in ''fear'' of my losing my position, I would be in more fear of the IAM than I am of management.

IMHO,
UT

----------------​

What process would you be involved in other than continued character assassination?

 

[UAL_TECH]

<<What process would you be involved in other than continued character assassination?





Boeingbender
>>

Boeingbender,
If my comments are directed at you, then the statement stands on it''s own merits. My generalization has not ''hand picked'' you as the poster boy for the IAM. However, given the opportunity to defend yourself, can you answer the question of how a union can create a business in direct competition with it''s current union members?

Unions and business should never''collude''.
Unions are to represent the workers.
Workers work for a business.
Unions protect workers from a business being abusive to the workers.
The ideology that Unions engage in business is self defeating (as we have seen).
The IAM''s attempts to ''collude'' with business to create a third party maintenance (with the workers receiving low pay and minimal benefits) that is in direct competition with it''s ''other'' members is no less than ''Unionized SCABBING''.

SCABBING is bad enough, but when it comes
from a ''Union'',
it''s horrendous!!!

JMHO,
UT

 

[Boeingbender]

Touchy aren''t we? Of course, I was speaking of your record of generalized smearing of anyone who seems to disagree with your world view (I''ve lurked a long time on this site). Case in point your reply. I don''t take your rant personally (the poster boy comment was cute) nor can I recall saying I support or defend the IAM. If you want to change the subject maybe you want to start a new thread?

 

[atabuy]

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On 7/9/2003 2:25:02 AM UAL_TECH wrote:


&lt;&lt;What process would you be involved in other than continued character assassination?









Boeingbender
​

&gt;&gt;


Boeingbender,

If my comments are directed at you, then the statement stands on it''s own merits. My generalization has not ''hand picked'' you as the poster boy for the IAM.&nbsp; However, given the opportunity to defend yourself, can you answer the question of how a union can create a business in direct competition with it''s current union members?



Unions and business should never''collude''.

Unions are to represent the workers.

Workers work for a business.

Unions protect workers from a business being abusive to the workers.

The ideology that Unions engage in business is self defeating (as we have seen).

The IAM''s attempts to ''collude'' with business to create a third party maintenance (with the workers receiving low pay and minimal benefits) that is in direct competition with it''s ''other'' members is no less than ''Unionized SCABBING''.



SCABBING is bad enough, but when it comes

from a ''Union'',

it''s horrendous!!!



JMHO,

UT

----------------

UT,
If you think the IAM is the only labor union that runs like a business, wait until AMFA gets there foot in the door with all the other carriers.
It would stand to reason the AMFA team could lower dues to all workers with the increase in dues members, but I don''t think you will see that happen. In fact, I think you will see the heads of these unions get very rich while they give away jobs to get higher wage scales for the mechanics who are left.

You could help the ones who are laid off by giving up a few dollars an hour to help out the disadvantaged. That would be true unionism.

I talked with someone from NW and he said AMFA signed away 35% of their work to get higher wages. I wonder how all the laid off workers feel about that.

Here''s a conspiacy theory for you to ponder.
What if the AMFA big guys own the maintenance bases that all the airlines are contracting to. Wow! This could be a great movie.
These guys are getting money from both sides. What a win win for them.
How easy was it to get the attention of the mechanic who, was above the common rampman and cleaner, and needed to have their ego stroked.

Time will tell how big of a mistake is being made.
It will be interesting to watch what transpires over the next decade.

 

[UAL_TECH]

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On 7/10/2003 2:30:57 AM Boeingbender wrote:

Touchy aren''t we? Of course, I was speaking of your record of generalized smearing of anyone who seems to disagree with your world view (I''ve lurked a long time on this site). Case in point your reply. I don''t take your rant personally (the poster boy comment was cute) nor can I recall saying I support or defend the IAM. If you want to change the subject maybe you want to start a new thread?

----------------​

Boeingbender,

Generalized ''Smearing'' ???
If I make a statement that is factually incorrect, I will (and have) apologize.
If you have something specific to discuss, cut to the chase.

UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

----------------
On 7/10/2003 7:31:01 PM atabuy wrote:

UT,
If you think the IAM is the only labor union that runs like a business, wait until AMFA gets there foot in the door with all the other carriers.
It would stand to reason the AMFA team could lower dues to all workers with the increase in dues members, but I don''t think you will see that happen. In fact, I think you will see the heads of these unions get very rich while they give away jobs to get higher wage scales for the mechanics who are left.

What is your justification for this hypothesis? Has this been done previously by AMFA?

You could help the ones who are laid off by giving up a few dollars an hour to help out the disadvantaged. That would be true unionism.

I do! How much do you tithe?

I talked with someone from NW and he said AMFA signed away 35% of their work to get higher wages. I wonder how all the laid off workers feel about that.

How much did we negotiate away for ''less'' wages?

Here''s a conspiacy theory for you to ponder.
What if the AMFA big guys own the maintenance bases that all the airlines are contracting to. Wow! This could be a great movie.
These guys are getting money from both sides. What a win win for them.
How easy was it to get the attention of the mechanic who, was above the common rampman and cleaner, and needed to have their ego stroked.

Time will tell how big of a mistake is being made.
It will be interesting to watch what transpires over the next decade.
----------------​

Jim,
I''m sure the PBGC will take care of you as much as it will take care of me.

Take Care,
UT

 

[Boeingbender]

----------------
On 7/12/2003 9:53:59 PM UAL_TECH wrote:

----------------
On 7/10/2003 2:30:57 AM Boeingbender wrote:

Touchy aren''t we? Of course, I was speaking of your record of generalized smearing of anyone who seems to disagree with your world view (I''ve lurked a long time on this site). Case in point your reply. I don''t take your rant personally (the poster boy comment was cute) nor can I recall saying I support or defend the IAM. If you want to change the subject maybe you want to start a new thread?

----------------​

Boeingbender,

Generalized ''Smearing'' ???
If I make a statement that is factually incorrect, I&nbsp; will (and have) apologize.
If you have something specific to discuss, cut to the chase.

UT


----------------​

Fair enough. I had my say about the opening message of this thread. TTFN

 

[767jetz]

-

 

[UAL_TECH]

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On 7/13/2003 3:02:25 PM Boeingbender wrote:

----------------
On 7/12/2003 9:53:59 PM UAL_TECH wrote:

----------------
On 7/10/2003 2:30:57 AM Boeingbender wrote:

Touchy aren''t we? Of course, I was speaking of your record of generalized smearing of anyone who seems to disagree with your world view (I''ve lurked a long time on this site). Case in point your reply. I don''t take your rant personally (the poster boy comment was cute) nor can I recall saying I support or defend the IAM. If you want to change the subject maybe you want to start a new thread?

----------------​

Boeingbender,

Generalized ''Smearing'' ???
If I make a statement that is factually incorrect, I&nbsp; will (and have) apologize.
If you have something specific to discuss, cut to the chase.

UT


----------------​

Fair enough. I had my say about the opening message of this thread. TTFN

----------------​

Boeingbender,

Thanks, you proved my point by dumping years of employee greivances, and historical records into the trash. The IAM professionalism has performed as expected.

Thanks for nothing!!!

So, when are you going to get your butt back to work and get off the dole?

UT