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IAM WINS!

AMFAinMIAMI said:
 
 
Mike33
 
If the IAM is so great over there then why did you guys have a vote to remove them?
 
You guy's signed enough cards to rid yourself of the IAM and bring in the IBT.
 
What has the IAM done since the Teamsters lost? Has US Mgmt made any attempt to settle with you?
Do you think the NMB is going to release You? Job actions are done in the industry, the government sides with the companies these
days. Self help is a thing of the past.
 
I for one am glad the results went the way they did because the IBT is the worst of the three big industril unions in the
airline biz. I was with the IAM at Eastern, good then but now the IAM is just a business just like all the others my opinion.
 
We as AMT's have been tied to the ramp/stores for so long its time to shed them. Bring in AMFA and we can rid AA and US from the airlines.
 
Don't let the Assoc. tell you you will loose your pension if you switch. Don't think that the IAM is going to be around when it is all is said and done.
The AA employees are and will dictate which union will be here in the future. We may operate for yrs independently but sooner or later AA will have ONE union, AA is NOT going to have two unions representing the same works group forever NOT going to happen.
 
You and I may be gone from the industry by then but US is not going to keep its union if there is a vote we at AA out number you guys.
Think about that. We need to work together to bring a CRAFT UNION to AA. The only one is AMFA at this point. "YES" amfa is not the
save all they have their problems as well but YOU are correct in that we need to stand as one group.
MECHANIC-Aircraft/automotive/facilities/Utility.
 
If US mechanics and AA mechanics vote in AMFA that amount of dues will give them power in the industry as well as any lobbying
that is required to help our class and craft for the guys who will follow.
 
AMFA at the NEW AA with US. 2014
 
 This is the exact line of thinking i don't employ with parker in charge.......
 
" We as AMT's have been tied to the ramp/stores for so long its time to shed them. Bring in AMFA and we can rid AA and US from the airlines "  
Huh?
 
" We need to work together to bring a CRAFT UNION to AA. The only one is AMFA at this point. "
 
You are on the other end of my spectrum regarding working together. Until the outsourcing is put in check,  this new airline employes power in numbers, not divided by License.... A license allows the benefit of more $$.
 
mike33 said:
 
 This is the exact line of thinking i don't employ with parker in charge.......
 
" We as AMT's have been tied to the ramp/stores for so long its time to shed them. Bring in AMFA and we can rid AA and US from the airlines "  
Huh?
 
" We need to work together to bring a CRAFT UNION to AA. The only one is AMFA at this point. "
 
You are on the other end of my spectrum regarding working together. Until the outsourcing is put in check,  this new airline employes power in numbers, not divided by License.... A license allows the benefit of more $$.
 
 
Mike
 
So tell us how just well the strength in numbers has worked for you being tied to the ramp and stores all these yrs.
 
The industrial unions split the total Pot of $$ with regards to benefits, we only get extra for our lic. you are correct but the lic. pay is more or less the same at most carriers so the companies will not give us more to compensate for the pot split with the ramp/stores. The industrial unions can't bargain for more for us and ask the ramp/stores to take less. Would be unethical. This way we have a union for us they have a union for them.
Not that we are any better it just gives us a better position IMO with the company both AA and US until the merger of seniority issues is worked out. Which could be years..... 
 
OLD way of thinking, numbers don't count anymore since we can not use self help anymore anyway. As long as you are a union guy we should respect the union of the fellow workers but we need mechanics negotiating for mechnics not ramp/stores. As long as we work together to improve our class and craft it should not mean a difference if they have one union and we have another.
 
Most craft unions such as electrician/plummers/painters/carpenters/masons/Pilots/F/A's all have their own union so why shouldn't we?
 
It's all about the dues $$$ for the big industrial unions, it's time to be about our class and craft and our families.
 
I even was told that you at US even thought of, or are thinking about the UAW as a union?  Is that something you guys are thinking as well?
 
Think Craft Union Think AMFA at US and AA.
 
Mike33 is fleet. As far as negotiating, the nc for M&R is made up of M&R employees, and the ramp gets no input into negotiations/ratification, and M&R doesn't negotiate or vote on fleet's CBA.
I am not opposed to having different unions for the two crafts
 
blue collar said:
Mike33 is fleet. As far as negotiating, the nc for M&R is made up of M&R employees, and the ramp gets no input into negotiations/ratification, and M&R doesn't negotiate or vote on fleet's CBA.
I am not opposed to having different unions for the two crafts
Blue Collar
 
After you get your current deal worked out if that ever happens.
 
There will be a joint cba with AA and US guys, its at that point we need to be the same craft union. The IAM is or will try to get what ever deal they can for you now, but when it really is all said and done we the mechanics need to have our own union.
 
When they start to integrate the members onto one seniority list, having one union will just make things a lot smoother. Also another fact is that when that happens what ever union is here at AA will be the union for both the AA guys as well as the US guys.
IMO AA mechanics have the voting power if it came down to it. I hope we never get to that. I hope we both can rid our airline of the industrial unions.
 
AMFA @ AA & US 2014
 
AMFAinMIAMI said:
Blue Collar
 
After you get your current deal worked out if that ever happens.
 
There will be a joint cba with AA and US guys, its at that point we need to be the same craft union. The IAM is or will try to get what ever deal they can for you now, but when it really is all said and done we the mechanics need to have our own union.
 
When they start to integrate the members onto one seniority list, having one union will just make things a lot smoother. Also another fact is that when that happens what ever union is here at AA will be the union for both the AA guys as well as the US guys.
IMO AA mechanics have the voting power if it came down to it. I hope we never get to that. I hope we both can rid our airline of the industrial unions.
 
AMFA @ AA & US 2014
I hope you guys can get what you want. I'm no longer at either one of these two airlines, I am AMFA represented at my current employer, I should have clarified that earlier.
 
Seniority is all ready agreed too, dont you guys educate or inform yourselves?
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/Bulletins/2013/USA_2013-46.pdf
 
http://www.iamdl142.org/Bulletins/2013/TWU/US-AA_SIL.pdf
Actually you need to comprehend what you read. First off, nobody has said anything about seniority being or not being agreed too. AMFAinMIAMI simply wrote this;- "When they start to integrate the members onto one seniority list, having one union will just make things a lot smoother." I repeat "When they start to integrate" nothing here about not being agreed to.

Now, as far as your agreement and attachments; The first one is pretty much junk, as it is only authored by the IAM and only one representative. And clearly the second one is completely based on "IF" there is a successful implementation of this alliance of the TWU/IAM by membership vote. Therefore; if the alliance is voted against, then you will have 2 different unions that need to come to a fair and equitable agreement for seniority integration following the M&B laws. OR, there very well could be an election done (this time conducted by the NMB) to see who will be the representing union for the newly combined airline mechanics and related. There are different scenarios that can still happen, so don't just assume that the alliance is a shoe in every time you type or post something. And even with your original scenario, there is also a chance for AMFA to get in on the vote, "IF" you were speaking the truth about the "other" option being a "speak-in or write-in". Personally I don't see this being an option since this election will be ran and conducted by the 2 unions. If the NMB was conducting the election then I would believe it. But the NMB has already provided in writing that they have no jurisdiction nor will they conduct such an election where two unions want to combine, merge, or create an alliance.
In other words, if the alliance does not get voted in, your little agreement for seniority integration is null and void, unless it is the same in both unions by-laws or contracts, otherwise they will have to follow the M&B law...
 
BTW  WT, you have failed to address and thus far ignored this challenge from me, why is that WT???  And I know you read it because I only received one negative, and it was from you:-
 
 WT, why won't you contact Don West at the NMB and ask him who will conduct the election of the alliance between TWU/IAM? And post the results here, as I have, in writing? C'mon WT, don't be scared, it's free.--- It only takes 5 min to email this question to the NMB. I encourage you and others to do it. Tell you what WT; You send the e-mail and post for all of us to see. If the NMB says they will conduct and/ or run the election for the alliance between the TWU/IAM, I will publically come on here and praise your victory for you. C'mon WT you cannot pass this up, I am not even asking you to praise me when I am correct, but if you prove me wrong then I will publically praise you in front of everyone on here. Now just to be clear this is the question at hand; "Will the NMB conduct or run the election for the TWU/IAM alliance vote to combine the TWU and IAM into one union?" Don't be scared WT; follow thru with the challenge or all out here will know you are too scared to see the true results in writing from the NMB...          
 
Q4: How long will the TWU/IAM Airline Employee Associations last?

The Associations are intended to be the permanent certified bargaining representative of the combined groups. They can be changed only if both unions agree to do so, or if another union applies for representation to the NMB and, after winning an election, is certified to displace the Association.
http://www.usaamerger.com/twu-iam-association-qa-part-ii/#sthash.6Sgi35O3.dpuf


I guess the elephant in the room is which union (TWU or IAM) is going to file first? Then there is the timing issue of it probably won't be declared single carrier status for a few years. AMFA will have to file for representation elections at both AA and USAir until single carrier status is declared and implemented.

AMFA only had 8 write-in's at USAir, 2 1/2 times more people wanted no union, and is locked out a year........!!
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2013/40n070.pdf
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/29/1206.4

AMFA could not get the cards timly filed at AA, not even getting of the ballot and is locked out a year........!!
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2013/40n071.pdf
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/29/1206.4

What part of AMFA's current poor performance and past history of failures is good for the M&R at the soon to be merged AA/USAir?
 
Boresight you need to educate yourself on the what AMFA has done for our profession. Stop reading the copy and paste. We all have read this stuff before. Your a newbie so I suggest you do some catch up research on your own. If you truly are an AMT you would realize that AMFA has tried to push for the best for the craft. Why is it that the industrial unions and the airlines are afraid of AMFA? That is one question you should be researching. Speaking of poor performance...... you should look at the poor performance of the TWU, IAM and IBT in the airline sector.
 
The lockout is a NMB rule for ANY union to file, so what is your point?
AMFA had no campaign at USAir. The main interest was IAM vs IBT. So what is your point on that issue? The CWA had no votes casted, so does that make them a bad union?
 
As far as the filing you obviously did not follow all the events at the AA filing with the AMFA, IBT drive. Did you?
 
The IBT drive was a failure from the beginning. It was done to help keep the TWU on the property and dilute interest away from AMFA. That mission was accomplished. Sadly many at AA fell for that sucker punch move from the IBT,TWU. Did you know that? Obviously not by your post. The devil is in the writing or in our case the Association. Do some research before you post nonsense like others have done in the past. Pilots have a craft union and so do Flight Attendants. Do you feel we as skilled AMT's do not deserve our own craft union? Are we not entitled to have our own representation? Are we not worthy of  achieving this task?
 
What AMFA has done?
 
Lets see, got totally outsmarted at NW and gave up the certification after the merger with DL, how do you take a membership out on strike with no strike fund and no resources?
 
They had to rely on handouts from the UAW and others.  They had to have known that NW was training scabs to replace them.
 
Has such weak language that AS closed their OAK heavy maintenance base and over 200 mechanics lost their jobs.
 
Lost a major status quo case with Atlantic Coast Airlines, where the court ruled that status quo now doesnt apply to newly organized workers, (that was never the case until AMFA sued ACA and lost).
 
Has some of the worst scope language in the industry, WN has like 600 planes and only four lines of mtc are done in-house.
 
And they treat the non-mechanics as second class citizens, the union was started by a meat cutter who worked for AA as a mechanic in the 60s for less than two years and then sucked off the A&Ps  along with Kevin McCormick.
 
Let the flames begin!
 
The reason the pilots and fas are separate is because the DOL recognizes them as skilled labor and the AFA is now part of the CWA as they couldnt survive on their own.
 
The CWA had no votes casted as they dont represent ANY Mechanic and Related in the industry, the vote was between the IAM and IBT, not the CWA or AMFA.
 
700UW said:
What AMFA has done?
 
Lets see, got totally outsmarted at NW and gave up the certification after the merger with DL, how do you take a membership out on strike with no strike fund and no resources?
 
They had to rely on handouts from the UAW and others.  They had to have known that NW was training scabs to replace them.
 
Has such weak language that AS closed their OAK heavy maintenance base and over 200 mechanics lost their jobs.
 
Lost a major status quo case with Atlantic Coast Airlines, where the court ruled that status quo now doesnt apply to newly organized workers, (that was never the case until AMFA sued ACA and lost).
 
Has some of the worst scope language in the industry, WN has like 600 planes and only four lines of mtc are done in-house.
 
And they treat the non-mechanics as second class citizens, the union was started by a meat cutter who worked for AA as a mechanic in the 60s for less than two years and then sucked off the A&Ps  along with Kevin McCormick.
 
Let the flames begin!
 
The reason the pilots and fas are separate is because the DOL recognizes them as skilled labor and the AFA is now part of the CWA as they couldnt survive on their own.
 
The CWA had no votes casted as they dont represent ANY Mechanic and Related in the industry, the vote was between the IAM and IBT, not the CWA or AMFA.
Again 700 are you a AMT? Have you worked under the oversights of the FAA? Have you walked in a AMT's shoes and carried out our responsibilities and liabilities? Are you subjected to fines and criminal punishments? Have you ever turned a wrench on a aircraft and signed your name to it? This is why we AMT's not guys like you who love industrial catch all unions need our own craft union. You may know union stuff but you are no AMT and do not work day in and day out under what we do. Let the AMT's decide for ourselves which craft union we want to represent us. Your not in our title group and like I said earlier AMFA must threaten you to the point you pull all the stops to discredit them just like the IAM,TWU and IBT have done since 1962. I can tell you that if the alliance does come to a vote at AA many of us will turn it down because we know the TWU/IAM will NOT decertify themselves from the property. The TWU/IAM and the company are afraid of a NMB run election. The usual threat of AMFA winning scares the crap out of everyone. Say what you want but it is what it is. Industrial unions representing the skilled AMT have been dragging us down for years. We will always try to improve our craft even if it means fighting guys like you who never worked under our rules. Go tell the pilots or flight attendants they should leave their unions and join the ranks of the IAM's and TWU's. See how far that will get you. Focus your efforts on YOUR title group and let us deal with ours. I know that is hard for you to do but maybe you should give it a shot. You might be surprised at the outcome.
 
How is posting facts and what has occured discrediting?
 
Those are actual things that happened under AMFA's watch.

Sorry if the truth hurts.
 
700UW said:
How is posting facts and what has occured discrediting?
 
Those are actual things that happened under AMFA's watch.
Sorry if the truth hurts.
Like I said you can not help yourself from getting involved in our craft. Hook line and sinker. Have a nice day if you can without budding into a craft you never worked a day in your life. :lol: 😀 🙂
 

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