IBT/UAL contract rejection, what does it mean to us at AA?

[swamt]

Im a UA guy but we are all in the same boat here so Im putting out my thoughts here:
 
We need to expand our mechanic wage comparison to include UPS and Fedex.
 
Nowdays the airlines are even more profitable than the shipping companies so managements excuses to exclude them are no longer valid.
 
Non union fedex is at $53 , UPS teamsters are at least  $50.31 from a contract from April 2011 and are in negotiations and reportedly looking for $60 ish.  
 
Southwest has been at $43.90 approx for about 5 or 6 years and currently in negotiations.
 
Delta recently to $46.15. 
 
I feel that the Delta number is low and if anything we ought to average Delta at 46 , Fedex at 53 and UPS at just say $56 which added together and divided by 3 gives us $51.66 as something that an aircraft mechanic at a major airline should be making and yes Fedex and Ups are major airlines. 

I completely agree with you on including UPS and Fed Ex. Our co keeps stating they fly packages and we fly people so they say we cannot compare. What the teamsters failed to do was get that changed, instead they just agreed with the co that they cannot compare them. AMFA is currently using UPS as well as Fed Ex in our current nego's. Also, our dispatchers were successful at using the UPS dispatchers and other airlines dispatchers contracts with a mediator or in arbitration and jumped their contract the largest jump they have ever had, were talking up to a 40K difference in all in top out.  The mere fact that SWA argues that we fly humans should put us above UPS wages not below.  The responsibility of human lives over the responsibility of packages should be outweighed 10 fold, should it not?  Can't wait to see where the UPS guys go to after their new contract.  
 

 
 Reread what I wrote. I said  "the company has already committed to giving us". Obviously the higher UAL raises the bar the higher the base line is for us. 

I did re-read and concur.  It's been as of late that most postings on this 3%-7% issue it seems most are ok with the 3% that Parker changed his mind over.  But I will also add this Bob.  We have not heard any union member, or anything from the union itself saying they will be going in and demanding the original 7% over. But we have been reading a lot of postings just accepting the 3% and still only hoping they will still get that.  I hope you guys get industry leading (and yes I include UPS and FE when I say that) and I hope you guys get everything back as the association has promised.   All passenger airline mechanics should in fact be above any package haulin airliner.
 

It's not all about wages. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't United wanting your scope to include lost jobs through outsourcing. We need to look at the scope as well.

Correct. I have always said that sometimes scope is even more important, it's a tactic for companies to self pay for the raises so not to pull from the record profits and scope language is where they try to get that back.  It usually never fails when a co offers big raises, they were more than likely able to slip in some kinda language changes to more than make up for it.

 

[Overspeed]

Bob,
Are you running for President? It appears that we are not getting much from our current leader and it seems no one from outside the current officers is interested in running. Although I was a critic in the past positions can evolve. I strongly believe now is the time to push hard on the new AAL. The responses I have received from GP on questions are nothing but blaming the past ATD reps. We need a real path forward that involves rattling the status quo and taking some calculated risks.
 
DL+3 and UA+3 is not nearly enough. The airline industry has changed. AAL has unprecedented pricing power and we should have the same. Supporting the IBT and AMFA in their cause is right because it is our cause as well. Unity across unions needs to happen as well.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The IBT is just awful, along with the IAM or TWU it seems. As American employees, we MUST support the Association up until at least we can re-evaluate future needs, AFTER the ratification of a contract.  Perhaps the TWU will re-evaluate its partnership in the Association as well.  The Association is a non-aflcio union, thus other unions don't have any no raid clauses.  I suggest, if democracy fails at the IAM, that at least the United airline IAM members ought to consider a new ground union that allows them the democracy and independent strength needed to move things forward.  As for American, if the TWU wants to depart the Association, after a ratified contract, then I think that it would stand a very good chance among rampers to shed the IAM from the property.
 
But something has to give because we shouldn't have to continue fighting our own unions over bull crap agreements.  Giving up profit sharing for 4% at AMR was worse than a nursery crime but BETTER than the IAM tossing it away for a 2.1% pay increase and then moronically telling folks that it was guaranteed, not like profit sharing.....knowing that each year would have record breaking profit sharing in a highly profitable industry.  Parker is one smooth character.
 
regards,

 

[DallasConehead]

Is Bob Owens, the Treasurer for TWU Local 591 telling the membership to boycott overtime?
 
Just wondering?
 
I applaud your bravado if so.

 

[Worldport]

Delete

 

[FWAAA]

And you are all failing to realize that this was a JCBA, not Section 6 Negotiations, therefore, they wont be able to strike.

The CO contract was ratified in November, 2010, and the UA contract was ratified in December, 2011. The UA agreement's duration was until June 30, 2013, so it's currently amendable under Section 6. The CO contract's duration was until late 2012, IIRC, so isn't it also currently amendable?

Is there a rule that the negotiation of a JCBA cannot occur at the same time as Section 6 negotiations?

 

[700UW]

They aren't in Section 6, show me an amendable date on their JCBA.

Oh wait they don't have one and no company will negotiate a Section 6 and a JCBA covering the same group in JCBA and Section 6 at the same time.

Examples are UA fleet, US fleet and mechanics, CO and UA FAs.

There is no rule, but it won't happen.

 

[WeAAsles]

They aren't in Section 6, show me an amendable date on their JCBA.
Oh wait they don't have one and no company will negotiate a Section 6 and a JCBA covering the same group in JCBA and Section 6 at the same time.
Examples are UA fleet, US fleet and mechanics, CO and UA FAs.
There is no rule, but it won't happen.

Sounds pretty self defeatist and discouraging my friend. What's the point in any of this then if you feel we have ZERO control of our own destinies?

 

[700UW]

You don't, read the RLA and Section 6.

The members don't care and won't mobilize, too busy bashing their current Union and care more about owning a gun than what controls their economic livelihood.

Do you know there were no airlines when the RLA was enacted into law?

Do you know the main reason and purpose of the RLA?

 

[WeAAsles]

You don't, read the RLA and Section 6.

The members don't care and won't mobilize, too busy bashing their current Union and care more about owning a gun than what controls their economic livelihood.

Do you know there were no airlines when the RLA was enacted into law?

Do you know the main reason and purpose of the RLA?

So you're saying that they have no potential then? They can never come to their senses and band together? Everything is just hopeless? 

Laws? Let's remind you something about laws.

The American Revolution was a political upheaval that took place between 1765 and 1783 during which colonists in the Thirteen American Colonies rejected the British monarchy and aristocracy, overthrew the authority of Great Britain, and founded the United States of America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution

Sorry but I just don't feel comfortable with the notion that we're all just Rats in a maze that have no doors.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW 700 you really need to start paying attention to what's going on out there. Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. The "People" are starting to reject the status quo.

 

[700UW]

And you are going back over 200 years.

What did any union do when Reagan fired all the Air Traffic Controllers, when PATCO struck?

Not a damn thing.

Last time anything happened was in the late 60s all airline workers walked out and wildcatted.

Did anybody be help the workers and unions when Lorenzo destroyed them at CO and at EA?

They are all the IGM crowd.

 

[700UW]

BTW 700 you really need to start paying attention to what's going on out there. Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. The "People" are starting to reject the status quo.

And I guess you and others have forgotten Congress controls what happens.

And I was part of the program to change the RLA and stop foreign outsourcing, if the members can't stand up for their own jobs who will?

 

[WeAAsles]

And you are going back over 200 years.

What did any union do when Reagan fired all the Air Traffic Controllers, when PATCO struck?

Not a damn thing.

Last time anything happened was in the late 60s all airline workers walked out and wildcatted.

Did anybody be help the workers and unions when Lorenzo destroyed them at CO and at EA?

They are all the IGM crowd.

Never said that are biggest fight wasn't against our own apathy. Step 1.

 

[texasreb]

Bob,
Are you running for President? It appears that we are not getting much from our current leader and it seems no one from outside the current officers is interested in running. Although I was a critic in the past positions can evolve. I strongly believe now is the time to push hard on the new AAL. The responses I have received from GP on questions are nothing but blaming the past ATD reps. We need a real path forward that involves rattling the status quo and taking some calculated risks.
 
DL+3 and UA+3 is not nearly enough. The airline industry has changed. AAL has unprecedented pricing power and we should have the same. Supporting the IBT and AMFA in their cause is right because it is our cause as well. Unity across unions needs to happen as well.

Larry Pike is headed to Tulsa , there's your new President.