I'm Sorry
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HPearlyretiree
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I retired after 9/11, HP offered early retirements to anyone with over 10 years, so I grabbed it!
I couldn't afford to work for an airline anymore, even though I love the industry, so it was a no brainer. The irony is of course, now I can afford to buy airline tickets!
While I miss the industry, I sure don't miss the entitlement philosophy of the unions. Unions just ensure that the work gets done slowly at a higher price, and that some racketeering goomba in the lead office gets more dough.
Don't miss that part one bit!
I couldn't afford to work for an airline anymore, even though I love the industry, so it was a no brainer. The irony is of course, now I can afford to buy airline tickets!
While I miss the industry, I sure don't miss the entitlement philosophy of the unions. Unions just ensure that the work gets done slowly at a higher price, and that some racketeering goomba in the lead office gets more dough.
Don't miss that part one bit!
Then explain how Southwest is the highest % of unionized employees the highest paid, most effiecent and profitable airline in the US?
They have made money for over 30 years straight, no airline can touch that record.
Don't let the facts get in your way.
They have made money for over 30 years straight, no airline can touch that record.
Don't let the facts get in your way.
HPearlyretiree said:Southwest? Better union, better culture.
Look, unions are going to be in the airlines forever, thanks to legislation designed to protect the nation from a rail workers strike back years ago when railroads meant something....
But, if you get a job in the rest of America, where we all live in the real world, you would find that no one has time for unions. Companies hire people and expect them to perform to a set of guidelines and people excel and get raises because they do quality work, not because they have a union to hide behind and not just because they exist for a period of time when an automatic raise kicks in. Employees have mobility, they can switch companies and not have to worry about being thrown to the end of a seniority list.
I realize that may sound radical to the collective thinking union folk, but that is how the world is.
Thank God, because things actually get done in the real world!
Really? Like REAL WORLD companies like Enron, WorldCom, etc. OH, that's right, those were SENIOR management crooks. Where were we? Unions! Construction companies? UNION. Grocery stores? UNION. Telephone companies? UNION! Textile companies? UNION!
Do you live in the Unites States of AMERICA? UNIONS, EVERYWHERE! THE most productive country on the planet------UNIONS!
[post="296222"][/post]Sorry to get a little tickled at this one, but please! What you are saying isnt even remotely true!!!
HPearlyretiree
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Blah blah blah with the Enron and the Worldcom BS.
Yeah, Unions have such clean hands!
Ask Jimmy Hoffa about it.
Or any number of dead goombas that are at the bottom of the East River or are permanently enshrined inside concrete blocks!
In the real world, we can leave our jobs if we don't like our companies and move to other companies without having to be stapled on the bottom of the list of seniority slugs hiding behind their union.
Its so refreshing, each employee is actually responsible to each company and vice versa, and if you suck at your job, you get fired and if you don't like your company you quit!
Its such a radical concept to folks that are weaned on the "we are entitled to a job" concept.
No, you are entitled to perform at your job and you have the power to excel, or leave if you don't like it.
But that is the real world, where companies pay you, you have free choice, and you don't have to send union dues to thugs who see the whole employer/employee relationship as some kind of violent world.
Unions are just the carcasses of failed collectivist thought. :down:
Yeah, Unions have such clean hands!
Ask Jimmy Hoffa about it.
Or any number of dead goombas that are at the bottom of the East River or are permanently enshrined inside concrete blocks!
In the real world, we can leave our jobs if we don't like our companies and move to other companies without having to be stapled on the bottom of the list of seniority slugs hiding behind their union.
Its so refreshing, each employee is actually responsible to each company and vice versa, and if you suck at your job, you get fired and if you don't like your company you quit!
Its such a radical concept to folks that are weaned on the "we are entitled to a job" concept.
No, you are entitled to perform at your job and you have the power to excel, or leave if you don't like it.
But that is the real world, where companies pay you, you have free choice, and you don't have to send union dues to thugs who see the whole employer/employee relationship as some kind of violent world.
Unions are just the carcasses of failed collectivist thought. :down:
HPearlyretiree
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700UW said:
Southwest seems to be a success because they don't tolerate entitlement whiners like you to gum up the works of a well run airline. I have yet to read a post of yours that had any positive quality, you seem to add drag to everything, I hope Doug cuts out the drag and runs a more streamline operation.
barbeetantrums
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tadjr said:
Never met one. Top range I know of are in the $9/hr range.
HPearlyretiree said:
Please tell us how many dead union leaders are at the bottom of the east river.
And you have to go back decades to bring up Hoffa, while WorldCom, Ebbers, Enron, Adelphia are all happening right now. Did Hoffa make his members pensions worthless? Nope he did not, but Enron did!
And why don't you ask the US Airways agents what happened to them in 1992 with no union.
And when you leave a company and start at a new one you are at the bottom. And no one at US is wanting anyone from HP to be stapled.
And if you were ever at negotiations you would know it is a battle I know first hand do you?
And in a union environment you are still responsible to the company, the only difference is the company must follow the collective bargaining agreements that they agreed to with the union, you can still be fired, but you have to be fired for just cause and not because you would kiss the boss rear end.
And why do you care you are not an HP employee anymore so what happens does not affect you?
Why don't you try using facts instead of making up stories?
HPearlyretiree
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I touched a nerve didn't I?
In your heart, you know I'm right!
In your heart, you know I'm right!
twambassador
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HPearlyretiree,
Your ideas are well intentioned, but if you believe what you say, you are very naive. In an ideal and perfect world, the theory you are talking about would work wonders. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world, and the weak has to protect itself from the strong. In comes the unions. If you truly believe that the only way to succeed is just to work hard, you need to open your eyes. In this dog eat dog industry, you have to protect yourself from management and from other unions. Nothing is perfect and unions aren't either, but leaving yourself out to be exploited is a worse proposition.
Your ideas are well intentioned, but if you believe what you say, you are very naive. In an ideal and perfect world, the theory you are talking about would work wonders. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world, and the weak has to protect itself from the strong. In comes the unions. If you truly believe that the only way to succeed is just to work hard, you need to open your eyes. In this dog eat dog industry, you have to protect yourself from management and from other unions. Nothing is perfect and unions aren't either, but leaving yourself out to be exploited is a worse proposition.
HPearlyretiree
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Maybe its because I am an individualist and negotiate for myself and don't need to be part of a collectivist group.
To each their own I guess.
To each their own I guess.
HPearlyretiree said:
Ohh, THAT is going to convince me! Ignore the facts of Enron, Arthur Anderson, etc. and say ONLY the union short-comings are to be taken into account.
The commies, of whom you seem to have an unwarranted fear (they're gone, you know, except in Cuba - the Chinese are trying to have the benefits of capitalism with the underlying freedoms that supprts it) were masters of re-writing history.
And since you like to toss terms about, look up facism - it's more likely.
