In Response To Chip

<<<<Furthermore, why do you continue to "shoot the messenger" regarding your insolvent company? Why don't you just go over to the virtually inactive United board and discuss your thoughts?<<<<

Chip, maybe if you stop dragging United into just about every posting you make then you will have less UA enthusiats over here.

BTW, what happened to these particular prediction you have made so far:

United will need to sell assets to get Exit financing and Usair is the front runner to acquire assets such as 767-200s and gates at ORD and others.

United will not meet DIP convenants in the latter part of 2003.

The most repeated one, UCT, in which Usair takes over Uniteds domestic flying.

And just about every other negative prediction you can come up with regarding Usairway's code-share partner United Airlines.

From this oberver, it appears that you are wrong on most accounts.

Finally, I noticed you have already started informal concession negotiations on behalf of your fellow ALPA pilots. I think you are way over the line on that one sir.

mrplanes said:

Let me point out something that glared at me from Bronners statement. He stated the "board has complete confidence in Siegel and his team".

There are 4 seats on that board that are owned by ALPA, CWA, IAM, and the TWU. How he states "complete" support is baffling. No, it is a lie. The BOD does not have complete support for Siegel. And those 4 votes can turn into a majority as the case moves forward. The fiduciary responsibility of the BOD system has recently been brought to light with the Enron and various other scandals. As the 4 union board seats make their case for the dismissal of an inept CEO and his team 4 votes could turn into a majority in a heartbeat. Why do you suppose Siegel is not allowing ALPA acesss to finanical records?

Bronner knows his investment is in deep do-do. The employees have much more to lose here than Bronner and Siegel. His taking us into oblivion with plan A, then plan A1, and now a developing plan B which shows a distinct lack of understanding of this business and how to run it. We want him gone. And we will present to the BOD members who support him the evidence of his lack of ablilty to run this company. Then they will do the job they are legally tasked with doing. Finding a CEO who can run this company.


With all due respect, I agree with all of your sentiments, only thing is that the Labor BOD seat is AFA seat with representation of TWU.
firstamendment said:
Fly said:
767jetz Posted on Dec 18 2003, 02:58 AM

Yahooooo! I got that letter from the company today!! Wow, they are even going to give incentives to lowly flight attendants such as myself B)

This is why you guys will be around next year and we may not. Our management team wouldn't understand the concept or reasoning of incentives if it bit them on the nose. I 100% give up on this management team. I no longer care if we survive or not. Honestly, who among the best of us enjoys constant threats? Please don't anyone give me the "why wait" routine. It's not about the job because as soon as a better opportunity comes along, I'm out of this hell hole.

Actually, our management continues with the "doom and gloom" and has just implemented NEW policies that increase the acceleration for termination of our employees.

With regard to profit sharing and stock, Chip is only referring to pilots who got a lion's share of the stock. However, they gave up the most. One half billion $ dollars per year in cost savings, in addition to their DBP, and received no cost savings credit for that atrocity.
To add further to the evidence that Chip's posts are degrading into outright lies, let me point out a few more blatant errors.

Chip, for your information, duty rigs have not been eliminated. On the 757 and up there is still a 1 to 4 TMA (Time away from base), a 1 for 2 duty, M5H (min 5 hrs per day), etc. The 320 and smaller replaced duty rigs with an end-of-month look back that guarantees 4.5hrs per work day and 5 hours per duty period.

So your comments about the lack of duty rigs is DEAD WRONG! Care to admit your mistake? Didn't think so. :down:

Your implication of no credit for dead head is also misinformed. The best I can figure is that you are refering to 1/2 DH counting toward the cap on the 757 and larger. I'll keep this simple for your simple mind. My cap is 89 hours for the month. I have an 88:59 line. Due to weather mid month I am now projected to 89:30. I dead head one 5hr leg at 100% credit. I get paid 89:30. 2:30 of the DH counts toward my cap. My cap total is now 87:00 and well below my cap limit of 89.

So your comment about DH time is DEAD WRONG! Care to admit your mistake? Didn't think so. :down:

Come on Chip... You claim to admit publicly when you are wrong. We're still waiting for it to happen.

As Cosmo very accurately points out, you play very fast and loose with your facts. Yet you love to point to others and call them wrong.

What about your claims of UA having to pay back up to $1.5Billion, when it was very publicly disclosed that the number stands at just over $700Million? Was that another one of your "accurate" statements?

What about UA losing $400Million in Q4 before BK costs? You never fessed up to that error.

What about the comments about UA being unable to get exit financing? You never admitted being wrong about that, even after 2 of the largest financial institutions in North America announced their intention of providing that very financing.

What about your claim that UA will need an equity sponsor? No comment there either?

The list of your misinformed posts and outright lies goes on, and on, and on. No one is shooting the messenger Chip. We are just exposing you for the fraud that you are, for all the world to see!
700UW said:
Guess he took his bat and ball and went home.
It'll never long is thier is another labor group , airline or individual alive that can sacrifice his/her career for the benefit of Chip Munn....he will never just go away or cease creating scenarios that benefits him.

I respect the sacrifices of the ALPA membership...and I deplore the methods that they used to destroy the ALPA pension fund...yet and still , nobody else is willing to do what will amount to signing your own death warrant to keep Chip flying.

I do believe the IAM has been most matter of fact in their statement of "The Concession Stand being CLOSED"

This does not say closed with exceptions !!! The Airbus Outsourcing ordeal stole or destroyed any measure of support that may have been within the IAM membership group. The IAM worked with the company and by the narrowest of margins , after two votes , got what they asked for....and We got burned along with our ALPA friends.

The ALPA membership was praised as being leaders during the concessionary time frame...and got what? Yup , burned to the ground.

Should ALPA choose to reverse directions after the token nugget of 60 added planes was mentioned?...that is your business and I wish you the best....but for the IAM being in a still un-settled legal fight over the current Airbus work not expect 1 fluid ounce of support.

I feel certain that this ALPA oriented dangling carrot will also be tied to the IAM being asked to conceed our work...and this simply won't happen. Contrary to whats being said or rumored...without the Airbus work (present and projected) being solidly in house...WE know without fail that the ranks will be wiped out with the retirement of our Boeings

The outsource crap may or may not affect the upper 25% of the senority ranks?...but 75% are in for the ride and shake-up of their professional lives if anything is conceeded regarding outsourcing issue alone.

I call on all my fellow IAM members to stand together and fight for what's we have to date, The future for us is lost without the work , the future is theirs to lose by not addressing the real issues that cripple our ability to make money as a company.

It's time to place the shoe on the other foot...and where it belongs for a change.
Ditto to what PitBull said. This is one "top 25%" pilot who will not vote for another dime. As for the 60 plane "nugget" - I still remember promises of turbogrowth. I figure that I'm out roughly $1 million in earnings & retirement from just the latest concessions. That should be enough.


To show Chip Munn's tomfoolery, all you have to do is look at all the posts he's made by clicking his user name.

By doing so, it makes it easy to reference all the contradictory statements and outright lies he has made.

Posted on: Dec 17 2003, 03:16 AM


P.S. By the way, who has always said United would emerge from Chapter 11?"
Forum: US Airways · Post Preview: #92167

If he posted this, why would he post this in this very thread?

Maybe you should take the blinders off because I understand it’s far from certain that United will emerge.

3 days ago, he wanted reader respect by claiming he has always said and believed UA would emerge from Ch 11. Yet today, he understands it's "far from certain"?

I think we're past the need for normal psychiatry, it's time for some SHOCK THERAPY.

Are there multiple personalities at play?

Does one personality prefer calling it ICT, while the other likes the sound of UCT???


the notorious fragrance by CM


Like we discussed earlier, I fear the eating of the young. ALPA has done it, the IAM has done it. Call me a cynic, but I fear the worst whenever one of these carrots is dangled. Maybe that is the real reason an early retirement has never been offered through all this mess. Management figures they can let the old sell out the young, then never backfill when the old retire.
Fly said:
Relax Francis! :lol:

We ARE coming out and it warms my heart to know that it sickens yours.
From a US Airways employee: YOU GO GIRL! You need it so do we, best wishes.