Industry Standard Wages

[thnkppl]

Your day of reckoning is coming. AMR is going to get there outsourcing figure whether it's through TWU, AMFA or the girl scouts. They MUST to remain competitive. Make no mistake....

AMR must outsource to remain competitive?

I would like to see the proof.

I say we can do any check faster and cheaper in house. And when we are done with the check the planes will be revenue ready!

 

[Bob Owens]

AMR must outsource to remain competitive?

I would like to see the proof.

I say we can do any check faster and cheaper in house. And when we are done with the check the planes will be revenue ready!

So would I. Back in 2009 I asked Arpey at the shareholders meeting if in house was more expensive when all is said and done, his response was "the Jury is still out on that".

What I can see AA trying to do is secure super low wages and keep a lot in house. As the supply of mechanics dwindles and aviation grows in Latin America and Asia outsourcing will become more expensive. In the meantime AA will try and continue to leverage heads against a decent paycheck which will give them a huge competative edge over their peers. Not only will AA enjoy lower non-labor costs but lower unit costs for labor as well. The concessions would give them the threat of outsourcing, problem with their strategy is the guys simply dont care anymore. They are not going to jump through hoops every time the company threatens them. Two failed votes and you would think they would get the message.

 

[thnkppl]

So would I. Back in 2009 I asked Arpey at the shareholders meeting if in house was more expensive when all is said and done, his response was "the Jury is still out on that".

What I can see AA trying to do is secure super low wages and keep a lot in house. As the supply of mechanics dwindles and aviation grows in Latin America and Asia outsourcing will become more expensive. In the meantime AA will try and continue to leverage heads against a decent paycheck which will give them a huge competative edge over their peers. Not only will AA enjoy lower non-labor costs but lower unit costs for labor as well. The concessions would give them the threat of outsourcing, problem with their strategy is the guys simply dont care anymore. They are not going to jump through hoops every time the company threatens them. Two failed votes and you would think they would get the message.

Exactly!

You are spot on when you said the guys simply don't care anymore. I've heard it from many many mechanics that "they can shut this place down I don't care anymore!"

AA has a gold mine with their maintenance bases and they dont even know it.

Imagine what a base full of highly motivated well paid mechanics could accomplish?

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip

Imagine what a base full of highly motivated well paid mechanics could accomplish?

I've said something similar to that for quite a while.

A real businessman would understand both the finance and accounting aspects of running a corporation as well as what motivates people to do their damnedest for their company while a CPA only understands what can be monetized and transferred to a tax return and propAAganda papers with the fervent hope of selling the preferred lies of the week to their people.

The bottom line is that Centrepork killed the company and the spirit of its people - now, the dumb SOBs can't figure out what happened.

"... but we did everything they told us to do in MBA/CPA school ...".

"AA has a gold mine with their maintenance bases and they dont even know it."

HAD, my friend - HAD.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

LH has a total separate MRO division and DL outsources its own HMV and in-sources third party work.

And they make a profit on the work like AA could do. But because of piss poor management this will never happen.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

"... but we did everything they told us to do in MBA/CPA school ...".

You must have been turned down for a job because you did not have a graduate degree. You continuously harp on people who have advanced degrees as if it is some kind of curse.

Go to school, get your degree, and make the changes happen that you are proposing. You have some great insight into the problems at AA (althought they do not exist solely because the top managers have graduate degrees).

 

[TWU informer]

You must have been turned down for a job because you did not have a graduate degree. You continuously harp on people who have advanced degrees as if it is some kind of curse.

Go to school, get your degree, and make the changes happen that you are proposing. You have some great insight into the problems at AA (althought they do not exist solely because the top managers have graduate degrees).

I do not disagree with you, but you would have to come and walk a day in Frank's shoes, and any other Tulsa base mechanic and then you would understand how and why those type of statements are made.

I highly doubt that any graduate degree in business teaches that upgrading unskilled individuals into skilled positions, and then allowing zero accountability within a large workforce is sound business.

Our base is filled inadequate managers with graduate degrees.

Of course that doesn't mean that all educated managers are ignorant. Just the ones we are close to on a daily basis.

 

[TWU informer]

Now back to the topic...

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I do not disagree with you, but you would have to come and walk a day in Frank's shoes, and any other Tulsa base mechanic and then you would understand how and why those type of statements are made.

I highly doubt that any graduate degree in business teaches that upgrading unskilled individuals into skilled positions, and then allowing zero accountability within a large workforce is sound business.

Our base is filled inadequate managers with graduate degrees.

Of course that doesn't mean that all educated managers are ignorant. Just the ones we are close to on a daily basis.

I think a graduate degree is best earned and applied by a succesful Manager who has risen through the ranks. That does not mean the those ranks must come from within AA (or the current company). That could come from another company.

Back on topic. I do think that performance based pay is key for those positions. That performance should not be judged by how many heads one can cut. It should be based on productivity, which in the airline industry (maintenance) is hard to measure. Especially when the people measuring are not familiar with the complexities of airline lone/overhaul operations.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Now back to the topic...

An $8/hr bump upon starting year six is impressive. Nice job AMFA.

Tell me again why you would want the TWU?

To keep a few thousand jobs at MRO pay to keep the dues money flowing? How long do you think AA will keep those jobs with the weak scope they have offered.

Get the highest pay possible for those that will remain, then try and get a long recall time for those who do not have the ability to move on from the yo-yo that is now your industry.

 

[Real tired]

View attachment 9491

Here is USAirways. From Article 18 page 79.

 

[Frank Szabo]

You must have been turned down for a job because you did not have a graduate degree. You continuously harp on people who have advanced degrees as if it is some kind of curse.

Go to school, get your degree, and make the changes happen that you are proposing. You have some great insight into the problems at AA (althought they do not exist solely because the top managers have graduate degrees).

Sorry to burst your bubble of wise-ass but I'd never consider nor have I ever considered a position in close proximity to those people.

I don't have any particular dislike of education as long as it is kept in perspective - any education simply gives a person a place to start and doesn't confer wisdom - only time and experience can do that.

Bean counters like Arpey, Horton and Carty typically install their drawers with a crowbar. Things don't vary too far from the book for these people because they have no people skills. Sure, they can schmooze as needed but that comes more under sales practice than does understanding people.

Make changes? You mean actually do something to help these fools? They do not listen to people who aren't in the same or higher postion on the food chain as they are even though they claim to do so. I'd much prefer to watch the devils rot from the inside out while on the sidelines.

 

[JABORD]

Sorry to burst your bubble of wise-ass but I'd never consider nor have I ever considered a position in close proximity to those people.

I don't have any particular dislike of education as long as it is kept in perspective - any education simply gives a person a place to start and doesn't confer wisdom - only time and experience can do that.

Bean counters like Arpey, Horton and Carty typically install their drawers with a crowbar. Things don't vary too far from the book for these people because they have no people skills. Sure, they can schmooze as needed but that comes more under sales practice than does understanding people.

Make changes? You mean actually do something to help these fools? They do not listen to people who aren't in the same or higher postion on the food chain as they are even though they claim to do so. I'd much prefer to watch the devils rot from the inside out while on the sidelines.

You got skills my friend, this friggin' analogy is priceless!!

 

[Buck]

Your USAir pay scale for mechanics is enlightening.

Not only does AA and its puppet settle for substandard compensation, which places us below the Chapter 11 docket #2726 industry legacy average of $36+ the proposed AA increases over the substandard term of the contract are 1.5% for AA and 3% for US.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I'd much prefer to watch the devils rot from the inside out while on the sidelines.

I truly feel sorry with you. I use to harbor those same feelings. That is why I left the industry and manufactured my own change. And yes, education is what opened that door.