Industry Standard Wages

[Overspeed]

AGAIN!!!!

If AA is now going to match or exceed the industry standard in outsource, and our defined pension is frozen, then we must begin to make the standard industry wage.

Here is United Arilines and Southwest Airlines Payscales.

And United Airlines

In black and white. The goal of AMFA/AMP to raise the wage at the expense of overhaul will be achieved with the assistance of BK. You guys finally got what you wanted but couldn't get with all those pesky overhaul members voting in a democratic union. You are willing to start the charge and watch the troops die in the quest for hire wages but you never told them it was just for the AMFA/AMP organizers, not the ones who signed cards and funded your dreams. Just like your idol Delle with his "one-time only" $500,000 annuity after leading all those NWA, UA, and AS guys towards a cliff. I thought one of the words in the AMFA slogan was integrity? Looks like "IGM" the definition of integrity in AMFA/AMP based on the facts and your words.

Keep up the fight of lining your pockets at the expense of the thousands that will lose their jobs.

 

[TWU informer]

In black and white. The goal of AMFA/AMP to raise the wage at the expense of overhaul will be achieved with the assistance of BK. You guys finally got what you wanted but couldn't get with all those pesky overhaul members voting in a democratic union. You are willing to start the charge and watch the troops die in the quest for hire wages but you never told them it was just for the AMFA/AMP organizers, not the ones who signed cards and funded your dreams. Just like your idol Delle with his "one-time only" $500,000 annuity after leading all those NWA, UA, and AS guys towards a cliff. I thought one of the words in the AMFA slogan was integrity? Looks like "IGM" the definition of integrity in AMFA/AMP based on the facts and your words.

Keep up the fight of lining your pockets at the expense of the thousands that will lose their jobs.

Oh boy, here we go again with the blame someone else for the failures of the TWU. Is the wage going to be raised in BK? I thought you stated earlier that was impossible.


You and the TWU are true pathetic specimens.

 

[Overspeed]

Speaking of comprehension let's try the truth.

UPON Date of Signing would the outsource percentage not be at or above 50%?
That is not spin, that is fact!

Nope not fact. The 10% is dollars and the 35% is man hours. Two completely different numbers. Apples and oranges, apples and oranges. The dollar figure can easily be 10% labor and 90% material. The 35% is man hours which is what you provide as an AMT. You don't crap new turbine blades do you?

 

[TWU informer]

Nope not fact. The 10% is dollars and the 35% is man hours. Two completely different numbers. Apples and oranges, apples and oranges. The dollar figure can easily be 10% labor and 90% material. The 35% is man hours which is what you provide as an AMT. You don't crap new turbine blades do you?

So you have no facts and cannot convert that 10% budget spend into manhours or labor.
You just state that it "could" be? Most good Unions could give you that breakdown in a FACTUAL statement.
It is only the most docile Union on the planet that still claims "It could be"

Another thing, for years the TWU claimed the number was between 17-20%.
When and how did it drop to 10%? Spin Magic?

 

[Overspeed]

In black and white. The goal of AMFA/AMP to raise the wage at the expense of overhaul will be achieved with the assistance of BK. You guys finally got what you wanted but couldn't get with all those pesky overhaul members voting in a democratic union. You are willing to start the charge and watch the troops die in the quest for hire wages but you never told them it was just for the AMFA/AMP organizers, not the ones who signed cards and funded your dreams. Just like your idol Delle with his "one-time only" $500,000 annuity after leading all those NWA, UA, and AS guys towards a cliff. I thought one of the words in the AMFA slogan was integrity? Looks like "IGM" the definition of integrity in AMFA/AMP based on the facts and your words.

Keep up the fight of lining your pockets at the expense of the thousands that will lose their jobs.

Oh boy, here we go again with the blame someone else for the failures of the TWU. Is the wage going to be raised in BK? I thought you stated earlier that was impossible.


You and the TWU are true pathetic specimens.

No the wage will not be driven up in BK. It is possible once the CBA is abrogated and 40% outsourcing occurs that the remaining AMTs could - COULD - get higher wages. Eliminating significant numbers of jobs to bring us in line with WN, UA, and DL so people such as yourself can have the possibility of getting UA or maybe even WN wages after BK is what your unstated goal is really. You tap dance around it but once you connect the dots from words like, if AA gets industry standard outsourcing we should get industry standard wages (read WN, UA from your pay scale posts), leads a person to the fact you want to sacrifice another's job so you can have a fatter wallet. Now THAT'S pathetic.

 

[Overspeed]

So you have no facts and cannot convert that 10% budget spend into manhours or labor.
You just state that it "could" be? Most good Unions could give you that breakdown in a FACTUAL statement.
It is only the most docile Union on the planet that still claims "It could be"

Another thing, for years the TWU claimed the number was between 17-20%.
When and how did it drop to 10%? Spin Magic?

It's reported to the RO Committee each month. The number is the dollars spent on Repairs in F41 divided by the Total MX Spend in F41. AA and the TWU have agreed that upon the creation of the TAESL JV that those dollars shown as engine repairs on the RB211 and Trent would be considered insourced work since TWU members provide the labor. That usually brings the raw F41 percentage down from 20% to 10%.

Magic? If you call math magic then yes, it's magic.

 

[TWU informer]

No the wage will not be driven up in BK. It is possible once the CBA is abrogated and 40% outsourcing occurs that the remaining AMTs could - COULD - get higher wages. Eliminating significant numbers of jobs to bring us in line with WN, UA, and DL so people such as yourself can have the possibility of getting UA or maybe even WN wages after BK is what your unstated goal is really. You tap dance around it but once you connect the dots from words like, if AA gets industry standard outsourcing we should get industry standard wages (read WN, UA from your pay scale posts), leads a person to the fact you want to sacrifice another's job so you can have a fatter wallet. Now THAT'S pathetic.

TWU is still on the property. And the 40% outsource is a demand and not a request fo mine.

Our choice was 35% or 40% outsource and loss of our pension without industry standard wages.

It is the TWU me-too clause that will prevent the standard wage from happening not me, not AMFA, not AMP.

It is amazing that in your mind, you can connect some imaginary dots, and blame me, AMFA, or AMP for what is taking place. You and I still pay 2 hours pay per month to the TWU. The TWU membership voted and said NO.

What kind of drugs does one have to take, to get that dot connecting halucination in the brain?

 

[TWU informer]

It's reported to the RO Committee each month. The number is the dollars spent on Repairs in F41 divided by the Total MX Spend in F41. AA and the TWU have agreed that upon the creation of the TAESL JV that those dollars shown as engine repairs on the RB211 and Trent would be considered insourced work since TWU members provide the labor. That usually brings the raw F41 percentage down from 20% to 10%.

Magic? If you call math magic then yes, it's magic.

And those values are challenged by whom and when?
That is likely the biggest fault the TWU has, and that is a belief that every unchallenged company figure is the truth.

STUPID is and STUPID does,

 

[Buck]

What's pathetic is your stance that everyone that is not a socialist

No the wage will not be driven up in BK. It is possible once the CBA is abrogated and 40% outsourcing occurs that the remaining AMTs could - COULD - get higher wages. Eliminating significant numbers of jobs to bring us in line with WN, UA, and DL so people such as yourself can have the possibility of getting UA or maybe even WN wages after BK is what your unstated goal is really. You tap dance around it but once you connect the dots from words like, if AA gets industry standard outsourcing we should get industry standard wages (read WN, UA from your pay scale posts), leads a person to the fact you want to sacrifice another's job so you can have a fatter wallet. Now THAT'S pathetic.

Do you believe that it is wrong to fatten that wallet? Does it bother you that everything you seem to espy is socialistic at it's core?

 

[Vortilon]

Based on Overspeed's posts, my take away is - at the very least the guy is a socialist. His agenda seems to be to continue the same tired line vs overhaul conspiracy as well. More than likely he is your garden variety TWU International paid stooge, armed with the International's latest commie bullet points.

 

[Overspeed]

And those values are challenged by whom and when?
That is likely the biggest fault the TWU has, and that is a belief that every unchallenged company figure is the truth.

STUPID is and STUPID does,

Is this type of logic and professionalism we can expect from AMFA/AMP? I feel so much better now.

The RO Committee can and does challenge the values provided. There are mechanisms in place and ways to back check the values. Did AMFA challenge UA when the existing language was violated when work was being outsourced? No, over 3,200 mechanics lost their jobs to outsourcing under AMFA and that was post BK! AS outsourced the entire OAK overhaul base and the AMFA stopped it? No, even after it was a clear violation of the labor agreement.

http://www.seattlepi...aim-1153909.php

You're right after educating myself on all those promises the craft union AMFA fulfilled - NWA, AS, and UA - if we were to go AMFA the saying stupid is as stupid does would be even more true than before.

I do not recall ANY TWU CBA where and entire overhaul base or permanent violation of the scope clause was permitted.

 

[Overspeed]

What's pathetic is your stance that everyone that is not a socialist
Do you believe that it is wrong to fatten that wallet? Does it bother you that everything you seem to espy is socialistic at it's core?

Call me socialist, I don't care. I'm fine with that. There is two sides of the scale. On one side you can get higher wages for a ever shrinking pool and on the other you can widen that pool. I would prefer to make it somewhere in between. Right now you, me, Bob, Chuck, and Dave could probably profit greatly individually by saying let them outsource like WN or UA and give the rest of us $38 plus an hour. Then what happens when WN and UA shrink the pool of high paid AMTs by another 10% for example and raises pay 5%? Do we follow? If so, when do we stop? When Dave gets cut? Bob? You? Me? When is enough a enough to enrich the ever shrinking pool of high paid people funded by the ever growing low paid people? Isn't that what movements like Occupy and cries of Wall Street and Corporate greed are trying to stop. If we keep moving farther and farther in to the area of a higher average wage for a smaller and smaller group then we are no better than the AMR execs that took us in to BK.

That BLS website quotes just over 100,000 A&Ps working in the US. It was only 20 years ago that probably more than half worked well paid airline jobs with good benefits. The way many pro AMFA/AMP guys talk you are conceding that now only 10% should get well paid and screw the other 90% as long as you are in the top 10%.

I would like to get back to the well paid 50% range myself. If that's socialist then I'm guilty. I'm not willing to throw my lower seniority brothers and sisters out of job for bragging rights to the fattest paycheck.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Is this type of logic and professionalism we can expect from AMFA/AMP? I feel so much better now.

The RO Committee can and does challenge the values provided. There are mechanisms in place and ways to back check the values. Did AMFA challenge UA when the existing language was violated when work was being outsourced? No, over 3,200 mechanics lost their jobs to outsourcing under AMFA and that was post BK! AS outsourced the entire OAK overhaul base and the AMFA stopped it? No, even after it was a clear violation of the labor agreement.

http://www.seattlepi...aim-1153909.php

You're right after educating myself on all those promises the craft union AMFA fulfilled - NWA, AS, and UA - if we were to go AMFA the saying stupid is as stupid does would be even more true than before.

I do not recall ANY TWU CBA where and entire overhaul base or permanent violation of the scope clause was permitted.

The twu is now on the hook for not 1 but 2 maintenance bases being closed and the decimation of what little work force is left behind.

 

[Mr Red]

Call me socialist, I don't care. I'm fine with that. There is two sides of the scale. On one side you can get higher wages for a ever shrinking pool and on the other you can widen that pool. I would prefer to make it somewhere in between. Right now you, me, Bob, Chuck, and Dave could probably profit greatly individually by saying let them outsource like WN or UA and give the rest of us $38 plus an hour. Then what happens when WN and UA shrink the pool of high paid AMTs by another 10% for example and raises pay 5%? Do we follow? If so, when do we stop? When Dave gets cut? Bob? You? Me? When is enough a enough to enrich the ever shrinking pool of high paid people funded by the ever growing low paid people? Isn't that what movements like Occupy and cries of Wall Street and Corporate greed are trying to stop. If we keep moving farther and farther in to the area of a higher average wage for a smaller and smaller group then we are no better than the AMR execs that took us in to BK.

That BLS website quotes just over 100,000 A&Ps working in the US. It was only 20 years ago that probably more than half worked well paid airline jobs with good benefits. The way many pro AMFA/AMP guys talk you are conceding that now only 10% should get well paid and screw the other 90% as long as you are in the top 10%.

I would like to get back to the well paid 50% range myself. If that's socialist then I'm guilty. I'm not willing to throw my lower seniority brothers and sisters out of job for bragging rights to the fattest paycheck.

You are a recruiting poster for AMFA,I'm surprised TWU hasn't told you to
shut your pie hole!Your thinking has got us to where we are at AA ! bottom of the barrel!!

 

[strikeforce]

Problems! Problems! -----My,my,my!------ For once it's really good to be on the outside (retired) looking in!

Yes it is.....last day was Monday!

I will certainly miss all my friends at AA.....WE had some good times over 22 years!