Industry Standard Wages

[TWU informer]

Scope and work classification sets the work that is going to be done by union members covered under the CBA. So yes the union does have a say in how many AMTs need to be hired.

Where did anyone say anything about the union firing people? The TWU has never done that, no individual members dropping a dime...

You espouse the virtues of a "professional craft union" yet you know nothing of what a collective bargaining agreement covers and how that applies to the members that are covered by it. "Sign a card but I have no idea what I am talking about."

You are hilarious Dave. A riot!

You forgot the part about the Union allowing an unproductive, unaccountable, unprofessionalm work force made of unskilled relatives and forcing the company to attempt to make skilled workers out of a bowl of jello.

I understand the scope clause perfectly clear and know that that protect work, not jobs.
It is the TWU that wants to turn the place into a romper-room full of problems and the complain that the company wants to get rid of the work. THAT IS WHAT KILLS JOBS!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

The TWU has done a Great job keeping work in house. The TWU RO committee has worked hard to keep work in tulsa and has brought a lot work back in. The simple facts are that we do more work in house than any other airline. The simple fact is that the RO committee has saved jobs over the years due to their diligence.

Check the CFM-56 Grievance where the engines went out and only three were considered a violation.
And then the 757's to timco.

and now 35-40% outsource.

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid

 

[nitronutt]

What makes your statement the babble of the ignoramous is that the AMFA is a Democratic Union, the choices made come from the membership and not the Union Entity itself.

What you are claiming is that the memberhsip needs some dictatorship overhead to protect them from themselves.
Not only is that an Anti-American belief, I think it is dead wrong and you are ignorant.

It is not AMFA that is destroying the profession. It is the belief that the Poltical Arena is where our salvation is at, while the AFL-CIO steals our money, plays that game, and fails us all.

It is failure in the direction of organized labor, not AMFA.

I believe we could reverse this trend if ALL Mechanics were in one Union. The AMFA idea and the only Union advocating that idea. You and others are claiming AMFA is failing while you refuse to join into and try the idea. Think big and outside your little world. Try joining in the idea and get everyone in one non-AFL-CIO union and lets see what happens then.

Im still standing on the AMFA slogan " Our way or the highway"

 

[Buck]

The TWU has done a Great job keeping work in house. The TWU RO committee has worked hard to keep work in tulsa and has brought a lot work back in. The simple facts are that we do more work in house than any other airline. The simple fact is that the RO committee has saved jobs over the years due to their diligence.

No the mechanics have worked hard to keep the work in house. The RO committee had meetings and lunches.

 

[TWU informer]

So they voted not to defend the CBA outsourcing language at UA? They voted to not defend the AS CBA when the OAK base was shutdown? Really? That's not what the record shows. That was a professional side step the issue at in those circumstances by the mighty craft union AMFA. Not even Morris Day and the Time could side step that smooth away from that grievance.

I am looking outside my world at the AMFA craft union world and I see bodies on the floor. About 23,000 of them who paid dues and bought in to the sign a yellow card and we will be rich concept.

You mean they did not vote on those labor agreements?

you are blinded by pitiful selfishness while blaming others for being selfish.

You mean the TWU didnt defend the MCI base shutdown?
You mean the TWU isn't going to defend the AFW base shutdown?

I really do not need YOU to sign a card.
Industrial Unionism is a valid form of unionism, just as Socialism and Communism are valid forms of Government.

I just happen to believe that the skilled/crafted worker is better off in a Union of skill. Rather than a Union of non-skilled.

You are entitled to believe different. But without, you exposing your skill, your postion in the TWU, or your seniority.
You know what I mean?.... who you are in general. Then many questions will remain as to what your true agenda really is.

 

[Overspeed]

No the mechanics have worked hard to keep the work in house. The RO committee had meetings and lunches.

The TWU mechanics. I agree.

 

[TWU informer]

Im still standing on the AMFA slogan " Our way or the highway"

Well put it on a t-shirt and wear it around with your other long list of TWU slogans that have done nothing to protect your interest.
When you finally figure out how meaningless a slogan is to the outcome, you will learn to put them aside.

 

[TWU informer]

Concessions are one thing but wholesale retreat and not even defending your own scope clause at UA is criminal. Allowing 90% of your membership's jobs to be outsourced, bravo. It's deregulations fault. Was AS in BK when they closed OAK? Was the CBA abrogated at UA when they outsourced all those jobs to AMECO? Uh, no.

I think you find that that happened before AMFA was certified at UAL. And I still wonder why you do not hold your current representation to the same standard?

 

[Buck]

The TWU mechanics. I agree.

I cannot believe that you didn't bring up the "me too" clause.

 

[Overspeed]

You mean they did not vote on those labor agreements?

you are blinded by pitiful selfishness while blaming others for being selfish.

You mean the TWU didnt defend the MCI base shutdown?
You mean the TWU isn't going to defend the AFW base shutdown?

I really do not need YOU to sign a card.
Industrial Unionism is a valid form of unionism, just as Socialism and Communism are valid form of Government.

I just happen to believe that the skilled/crafted worker is better off in a Union of skill. Rather than a Union of non-skilled.

You are entitled to believe different. But without, you exposing your skill, your postion in the TWU, or your seniority.
You know who you are in general. Then many questions will remain as to what your true agenda really is.

So AMFA inherited this agreements and they refused to defend them? That's a DFR. I am sure you are not saying the professional craft union would intentionally not defend the language they inherited. So if we went AMFA at AA we can expect them not to defend the CBA that they would inherit? Thanks for that info. I am a definite no now.

TWU cannot force AA to keep capacity and job on payroll when the 300 plus TWA aircraft were parked. If you shrink the fleet you don't need the jobs or the space. There is no minimum ratio of AMTs in the CBA, it was dollars at the time MCI was closed. If we use your methodology AA has to keep the same number of jobs regardless of the number of aircraft they have. That makes sense and no CBA has ever done that.

The AFW base shutdown is part of both the 3/22 and 4/26 offers. We are in BK now, not negotiations. Remember this BK is just a threat and not real. There is a motion to reject the CBA in court now if you haven't heard.

Other than that I am a TWU member, none of your questions means anything other than a tool for you to attack the messenger and not the info. That is a Fox News tactic.

 

[Buck]

Hss hss hss !

DFR?

The TWU is the master of DFR.

 

[TWU informer]

The TWU mechanics. I agree.

Who are the TWU mechanic? Do they now belong to the Union? Work for the Union?

You know I really have no time to argue with those that will never change their minds.

I have an AMFA website to keep up, contributions to take care of and spend, signed cards to get sent in, open minded TWU members that are ready to leave the TWU to speak with.

In other words, you are waste of valuable time that needs to be spent getting rid of the problem.

 

[Overspeed]

I think you find that that happened before AMFA was certified at UAL. And I still wonder why you do not hold your current representation to the same standard?

A refresher for you on AMFA at UAL. "AMFA, yeah they did that?"


During AMFA’s time representing UAL mechanics (2003 – 2007) over 3,000 jobs were lost.

AMFA agreed not only to the foreign outsourcing of heavy maintenance on 747s and 777s (AMECO – China), but also narrow body aircraft within the US (AAR – Indianapolis). Permitted UAL to contract out computer tech work, utility work, and all fueling work. PW2000/4000 piece part work was farmed out because AMFA didn’t put up a fight.

Due to poorly defended contract language, UAL was able to further expand outsourcing to include C Checks. As a result, C Check work went to Korea.

AMFA permitted UAL to institute “blending” under which uncertified mechanics were brought in off the streets to do aviation maintenance work while thousands of UAL mechanics were on furlough.

When UAL announced its intention to sell the huge 3,000 mechanic and related SFO maintenance base, AMFA never even took a position against it. AMFA also took little action to fight the effort. Here is what it did:

1. Had several meetings with UAL officials, but said they were confidential and did not share information with the membership
2. Was given a large sum of money by UAL in order to pay for an “independent” consultant to analyze the sale of the base
3. Attended the Teamster rally at San Francisco City Hall and insulted the Mayor carrying signs that had nothing to do with fighting the sale of the base, but raised a scandal the Mayor had been involved in earlier

During AMFA’s tenure at UAL all airframe overhaul was farmed out resulting in over 4,000 jobs lost.

 

[TWU informer]

TWU cannot force AA to keep capacity and job on payroll when the 300 plus TWA aircraft were parked. If you shrink the fleet you don't need the jobs or the space. There is no minimum ratio of AMTs in the CBA, it was dollars at the time MCI was closed. If we use your methodology AA has to keep the same number of jobs regardless of the number of aircraft they have. That makes sense and no CBA has ever done that.

Same with other Unions at other Airlines. You just cannot see the problem (dirt) on your own porch becuase you are too busy with the dirt on everyone else's porch.

 

[TWU informer]

A refresher for you on AMFA at UAL. "AMFA, yeah they did that?"


During AMFA’s time representing UAL mechanics (2003 – 2007) over 3,000 jobs were lost.

AMFA agreed not only to the foreign outsourcing of heavy maintenance on 747s and 777s (AMECO – China), but also narrow body aircraft within the US (AAR – Indianapolis). Permitted UAL to contract out computer tech work, utility work, and all fueling work. PW2000/4000 piece part work was farmed out because AMFA didn’t put up a fight.

Due to poorly defended contract language, UAL was able to further expand outsourcing to include C Checks. As a result, C Check work went to Korea.

AMFA permitted UAL to institute “blending” under which uncertified mechanics were brought in off the streets to do aviation maintenance work while thousands of UAL mechanics were on furlough.

When UAL announced its intention to sell the huge 3,000 mechanic and related SFO maintenance base, AMFA never even took a position against it. AMFA also took little action to fight the effort. Here is what it did:

1. Had several meetings with UAL officials, but said they were confidential and did not share information with the membership
2. Was given a large sum of money by UAL in order to pay for an “independent” consultant to analyze the sale of the base
3. Attended the Teamster rally at San Francisco City Hall and insulted the Mayor carrying signs that had nothing to do with fighting the sale of the base, but raised a scandal the Mayor had been involved in earlier

During AMFA’s tenure at UAL all airframe overhaul was farmed out resulting in over 4,000 jobs lost.

And what has happend at AA with the TWU? Again check the dirt on your own porch.

UAL at SFO is still there to this day.

Better yet, start distributing this garbage and help us get some cards signed.