Industry Standard Wages

[Bob Owens]

The 40% industry standard was not set by the TWU. You have to look at all the other unions that set helped set that standard.

AA now has fewer unlicensed mechanics than DL and UA. And DL and UA have approximately 40% outsourcing on top of that.

The point is you have no point. If the goal is a higher average wage than why not outsource everyone but one person and pay them $1M a year with 20 holidays and ten weeks of vacation? Then the TWU could say they have the highest average wages. Then what?

Current language allows up to nearly 50% outsourcing, always has. Once we do work in house the work becomes part of our work but when new work is created such as with new equipment we do not automatically get it. What the company is seeking is to be able to outsouce 45% of work we currently do in house. In court it was revealed that the company says that new equipment would eliminate another 3000 jobs that were not mentioned in the Term Sheets. Yesterdays Tulsa World article on the Dreamliner claims that AA has already said that the heavy maintenance will be outsourced, and they said that the heavy Maint on the A320s will be done "at market rates" last week in court. With 777s and 767s going overseas and MD-80s and 757s being phased out AA could get to that 50% without any contract changes.

Headcount reductions are coming. How we handle it is what we need to determine. Do we keep lowering wages only to see the headcount reduced anyway? Do we agree to concessions for work based on an unwritten "understanding"? Will AA layoff from the bottom and supply skilled workers to competitors? To me a buyout similar to what UAL offered would serve both parties well. It would encourage older workers to leave, they would most likely leave the undustry so AAs loss would not be a competitors gain, plus it would allow AA to keep younger workers who tend to be cheaper. Otherwise AA will find itself in the same position as United with an aging workforce and a huge recall list where retirees are replaced with workers who come back at top pay.

 

[MCI transplant]

Problems! Problems! -----My,my,my!------ For once it's really good to be on the outside (retired) looking in!

 

[TWU informer]

United Airlines Pay/Skill they have a raise due July 1st, 2012



I am about $4.00 short of this industry standard.

 

[Flying low]

Current language allows up to nearly 50% outsourcing, always has. Once we do work in house the work becomes part of our work but when new work is created such as with new equipment we do not automatically get it. What the company is seeking is to be able to outsouce 45% of work we currently do in house. In court it was revealed that the company says that new equipment would eliminate another 3000 jobs that were not mentioned in the Term Sheets. Yesterdays Tulsa World article on the Dreamliner claims that AA has already said that the heavy maintenance will be outsourced, and they said that the heavy Maint on the A320s will be done "at market rates" last week in court. With 777s and 767s going overseas and MD-80s and 757s being phased out AA could get to that 50% without any contract changes.

Headcount reductions are coming. How we handle it is what we need to determine. Do we keep lowering wages only to see the headcount reduced anyway? Do we agree to concessions for work based on an unwritten "understanding"? Will AA layoff from the bottom and supply skilled workers to competitors? To me a buyout similar to what UAL offered would serve both parties well. It would encourage older workers to leave, they would most likely leave the undustry so AAs loss would not be a competitors gain, plus it would allow AA to keep younger workers who tend to be cheaper. Otherwise AA will find itself in the same position as United with an aging workforce and a huge recall list where retirees are replaced with workers who come back at top pay.

Rumors I heard was that even though the LBO was crap, if it had got voted in a lot of the older guys would have taken the money and ran.

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe the TWU Stooges need to quit using Government standards as instead compare to our peers at other carriers.

 

[Overspeed]

Current language allows up to nearly 50% outsourcing, always has. Once we do work in house the work becomes part of our work but when new work is created such as with new equipment we do not automatically get it. What the company is seeking is to be able to outsouce 45% of work we currently do in house. In court it was revealed that the company says that new equipment would eliminate another 3000 jobs that were not mentioned in the Term Sheets. Yesterdays Tulsa World article on the Dreamliner claims that AA has already said that the heavy maintenance will be outsourced, and they said that the heavy Maint on the A320s will be done "at market rates" last week in court. With 777s and 767s going overseas and MD-80s and 757s being phased out AA could get to that 50% without any contract changes.

Headcount reductions are coming. How we handle it is what we need to determine. Do we keep lowering wages only to see the headcount reduced anyway? Do we agree to concessions for work based on an unwritten "understanding"? Will AA layoff from the bottom and supply skilled workers to competitors? To me a buyout similar to what UAL offered would serve both parties well. It would encourage older workers to leave, they would most likely leave the undustry so AAs loss would not be a competitors gain, plus it would allow AA to keep younger workers who tend to be cheaper. Otherwise AA will find itself in the same position as United with an aging workforce and a huge recall list where retirees are replaced with workers who come back at top pay.

50%? You are way off Bob, more lies. The current agreement limits to the current practice which is 10% of total maintenance spend you know that but you continue to lie. If new fleets are inducted under the current scope the same 10% for all aircraft in AA operations would fall under the 10% limit.

New fleets under the new language do not guarantee what fleets come in house however new work combined with existing work would have been limited to 35% of total manhours under the 4/26 language and 40% under the 3/22. More lies Bob. It's written in the proposed LBO Art 1 and in the 3/22 term sheet. The question is also answered on the company's own Q&A. You lie constantly.

Can't reach 50% if the language says 35% or 40% of total man hours. More lies.

Yep, headcount changes are coming. This phony BK is really working out for us. Can't wait for that big raise we will be getting from that big pile of cash that is on the table! BK was just a threat remember Bob. We are in it now! Bob, you tried dazzling them with your self-perceived brilliance so now you are leaning on baffling them with bullshit! I hope that works. June 22nd is right around the corner, time to deliver but you will blame the Int'l when you don't anyway.

 

[TWU informer]

50%? You are way off Bob, more lies. The current agreement limits to the current practice which is 10% of total maintenance spend you know that but you continue to lie. If new fleets are inducted under the current scope the same 10% for all aircraft in AA operations would fall under the 10% limit.

New fleets under the new language do not guarantee what fleets come in house however new work combined with existing work would have been limited to 35% of total manhours under the 4/26 language and 40% under the 3/22. More lies Bob. It's written in the proposed LBO Art 1 and in the 3/22 term sheet. The question is also answered on the company's own Q&A. You lie constantly.

Can't reach 50% if the language says 35% or 40% of total man hours. More lies.

Yep, headcount changes are coming. This phony BK is really working out for us. Can't wait for that big raise we will be getting from that big pile of cash that is on the table! BK was just a threat remember Bob. We are in it now! Bob, you tried dazzling them with your self-perceived brilliance so now you are leaning on baffling them with bullshit! I hope that works. June 22nd is right around the corner, time to deliver but you will blame the Int'l when you don't anyway.

You will have to convert that "current practice which is 10% of total maintenance spend" into manhours to have a meaningful discussion on what old work leaving would equal in manhours. The outsource formula is in manhour not dollars. And you know that to be true, but keep spinning the facts by parsing formulas. Are you Jim Reams staff assistant or something?

 

[Overspeed]

United Airlines Pay/Skill they have a raise due July 1st, 2012



I am about $4.00 short of this industry standard.

Maybe the TWU Stooges need to quit using Government standards as instead compare to our peers at other carriers.

What about the 6,000 plus jobs working for under $20 and hour at ATS, AAR, and Aeroman that would be making $33 an hour at AA under the TWU CBAs? I guess those jobs don't count as long as the Dave and Bob show make $38.59. IGM'er all the way!

 

[1AA]

Rumors I heard was that even though the LBO was crap, if it had got voted in a lot of the older guys would have taken the money and ran.

You think???

 

[TWU informer]

AGAIN!!!!

If AA is now going to match or exceed the industry standard in outsource, and our defined pension is frozen, then we must begin to make the standard industry wage.

Here is United Arilines and Southwest Airlines Payscales.

And United Airlines

 

[Overspeed]

You will have to convert that "current practice which is 10% of total maintenance spend" into manhours to have a meaningful discussion on what old work leaving would equal in manhours. The outsource formula is in manhour not dollars. And you know that to be true, but keep spinning the facts by parsing formulas. Are you Jim Reams staff assistant or something?

Nope, the 10% is existing work that as phased out will no longer exist under the new formula of man hours. Not a spin I just do this annoying thing called reading and comprehending. You should try it. It's pretty cool.

 

[TWU informer]

What about the 6,000 plus jobs working for under $20 and hour at ATS, AAR, and Aeroman that would be making $33 an hour at AA under the TWU CBAs? I guess those jobs don't count as long as the Dave and Bob show make $38.59. IGM'er all the way!

Who do work for the company or the Union Worker?

Please tell me when it became the Union Function to save jobs at the expense of the profession?

 

[1AA]

Nope, the 10% is existing work that as phased out will no longer exist under the new formula of man hours. Not a spin I just do this annoying thing called reading and comprehending. You should try it. It's pretty cool.

You forgot to add "Copy and Paste"

 

[TWU informer]

Nope, the 10% is existing work that as phased out will no longer exist under the new formula of man hours. Not a spin I just do this annoying thing called reading and comprehending. You should try it. It's pretty cool.

Speaking of comprehension let's try the truth.

UPON Date of Signing would the outsource percentage not be at or above 50%?
That is not spin, that is fact!

 

[1AA]

AGAIN!!!!

If AA is now going to match or exceed the industry standard in outsource, and our defined pension is frozen, then we must begin to make the standard industry wage.

Here is United Arilines and Southwest Airlines Payscales.

And United Airlines

Well if the TWU negotiated a industry standard pay scale then it would reduce heads and that leads to reduced income in dues money. We can't have that now, can we?