Interesting Article On Fll Expansion

[PLANES333]

Jetblue FLL Expansion plans

This articel is very interesting. It says B6 will fly to other NY airports from FLL, EWR? LGA? ISP? Well I know Neelman was asked about ISP in a press confrense a few months back and he said that B6 may look at flying into the airport a few years down the road. Why go against Wn to FLL? I think EWR is a better bet. Tons of O&D Pax who wont drive to JFK, tons of room for a low-fare airline, little space to expand.
Also in Justplanes.com, the news section posted a tid-bit about the FLL expansion, and it said B6 may fly from FLL to SJU, makes sense to me, give AA a run for their money like in JFK.

 

[MiAAmi]

I think when they mention NY airports they are talking about flights to BUF and other NY state airports. Not necessarily NY city airports. This is just a bluff on Jetblues part anyway. I don't see Jetblue moving to Miami anytime soon. FLL is their nitch and they are better off sticking with it.

 

[G4G5]

ISP to FL belongs to SWA.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

ISP to FL belongs to SWA.

I believe WN is about to learn no route "BELONGS TO SOUTHWEST" 😉

 

[MAH4546]

jetBlue is simply bluffing about thier threat to move thier FLL operations to Miami. At the same time, it would not surprise me to see jetBlue start-up Miami service, maybe 3x daily to JFK, in the future, to compliment thier FLL service. jetBlue's second largest customer base in the Miami area, they already serve FLL and PBI, and serving MIA would be logical, IMHO. It is more delay prone and such, but there are a large amount of people (such as myself) who perfer MIA simply for the fact that it is closer.

jetBlue's Ft. Lauderdale route map within five years should be very extensive. Look for Buffalo, Oakland, Rochester, and San Juan for sure.

 

[G4G5]

I believe WN is about to learn no route "BELONGS TO SOUTHWEST" 😉

You care to bet on that?

How well did Jet Blue do when they tried to take on LUV out of LGB and OAK to LAS? $29 a seat means nothing to LUV, they can do $19 a seat for a whole lot longer. Neeleman in no fool, he's not going to waste valuable resources on a low yeild dog fight.

I live on LI and anything that goes in and out of ISP is LUV's. They have driven out countless airlines form AA to Spirit. Jet Blue does not have the fleet size to come in and attack LUV at ISP. Even if they did what would it prove?

No, LUV has the new terminal/additional gates under construction.

Just like in HFD and PVD, they continue to lock up the folks that don't want to travel to the JFK's and BOS's. I have countless neighbors who would rather get droped off at ISP then take the painful trip to JFK. If the price is close most of my neighbors don't even mind the stop in BAL if they can't go direct.

I am not putting B6 down, they have a great niche in the NYC area and once the Air Train kicks in, well who knows.

As for Long Island, it belongs to SWA.

 

[G4G5]

I have flown into Miami countless times. It's not the answer for B6. The wx/traffic delays will kill them.

How many LUV flights go to Miami?

 

[Airlines9]

FLL already blew it for their chance at a major JBLU expansion. By delaying the runway JBLU had to look for another airport for Florida and found one. MCO. FLL was going to be JBLU training base and hub, but now everything is going to MCO. Ground has broken for the Pilot & F/A training center at MCO and there is talk of 27 gates, the new C concorse for JBLU. The City & State kick in a lot of money to get JBLU into MCO.

JBLU will not fly to other NYC airports but will fly nonstop to other NY cities from FLL. Like BUF, ROC, & SYR. FLL will grow but not like it was going to. Look to MCO for the big growth.

Airlines9

 

[runway4]

You care to bet on that?

How well did Jet Blue do when they tried to take on LUV out of LGB and OAK to LAS? $29 a seat means nothing to LUV, they can do $19 a seat for a whole lot longer. Neeleman in no fool, he's not going to waste valuable resources on a low yeild dog fight.

The whole LAS-LGB thing, as I see it, was to use the slots they had been granted, before AA and AS could sublease and eventually try to wrangle the slots away in court for non-use. B6 needed a close-in destination in which one a/c could turn several times a day. As new a/c have come on line, they can now use the LGB slots where they make better sense (e.g. FLL).

 

[G4G5]

You care to bet on that?

How well did Jet Blue do when they tried to take on LUV out of LGB and OAK to LAS? $29 a seat means nothing to LUV, they can do $19 a seat for a whole lot longer. Neeleman in no fool, he's not going to waste valuable resources on a low yeild dog fight.

The whole LAS-LGB thing, as I see it, was to use the slots they had been granted, before AA and AS could sublease and eventually try to wrangle the slots away in court for non-use. B6 needed a close-in destination in which one a/c could turn several times a day. As new a/c have come on line, they can now use the LGB slots where they make better sense (e.g. FLL).

My point was, how did SWA react? Weather or not it was a temporary use of slots, what did SWA do?

 

[MAH4546]

I have flown into Miami countless times. It's not the answer for B6. The wx/traffic delays will kill them.

How many LUV flights go to Miami?

Southwest does not fly to MIA. Thier service to Miami is all through PBI and FLL. I think PBI is about 12-15 dailies, and FLL is about 35 dailies, with a good 60% or so being intra-state to Tampa (13 daily), Orlando (nine), and Jacksonville (six).

 

[MAH4546]

FLL already blew it for their chance at a major JBLU expansion. By delaying the runway JBLU had to look for another airport for Florida and found one. MCO. FLL was going to be JBLU training base and hub, but now everything is going to MCO. Ground has broken for the Pilot & F/A training center at MCO and there is talk of 27 gates, the new C concorse for JBLU. The City & State kick in a lot of money to get JBLU into MCO.

JBLU will not fly to other NYC airports but will fly nonstop to other NY cities from FLL. Like BUF, ROC, & SYR. FLL will grow but not like it was going to. Look to MCO for the big growth.

Airlines9

Look for MCO nothing. jetBlue has built a loyal customer base in Miami and will build on that heavily. Orlando already is the home to airTran, which has a very strong route map there, and a major Southwest airport. While airTran serves a handful of destination from FLL (Atlanta, Philadelphia, Flint, Biloxi, and Baltimore), it is a minimal presence at most, while the bulk of Southwest’s FLL operations are intra-state services. jetBlue is not going to flood an already low-yielding Orlando market with more seats. Ft. Lauderdale is where it is at for them and where they will grow substantially in the next few years. Lauderdale-Boston is up in January (look for it to go twice daily by May; thrice by August). Lauderdale-Oakland should be up by summer. Lauderdale-Buffalo should be here by winter. Lauderdale-Syracuse/Rochester/Burlington will be among the first ERJ routes.

 

[funguy2]

Gosh... I hardly know where to begin...

Yield premium at FLL vs. MCO? I am not sure that is very big... Both are large leisure destinations - translation low yield.

Concourse C at MCO? Huh? Last time I checked they had Airsides 1-4 and an A and B side to the main passenger terminal. Do you mean the completion of Airside 4 (about 10 gates)? I have heard that MCO evenually plans aniother duplicate terminal (presumably C/D ares of a central terminal and Airsides 5-8 at full build out...) but I have never heard of a "Concourse C" at MCO.

Just because LUV is not at MIA is no reason to keep JB out. That certainly wasn't the rationale at JFK and others. I think the local traffic on JFK-MIA is huge, and JB would do well. MIA as a spoke and FLL as a focus city could do well for JB... seems to work for AA in reverse. JFK-MIA would also take on AA/UA, which JB seems to do well with (i.e. LGB, OAK, SJU). But MIA will probably not overtake FLL at JB's So.Fla. home. FLL is the low-cost prefered airport in So.Fla. I don't expect that to change.

I would be concerned if JB starts flying FLL-BUF/ROC/SYR. I would imagine those markets sizes to be small and low yield. They would do well to continue to funnel pax through JFK. I am sure that JB already gets its fair share of pax on these routes on a connecting basis. Even if they added nonstops, they would be extremely seasonal. I think JB has bigger fish to fry than FLL-SYR.

 

[MAH4546]

Gosh... I hardly know where to begin...

Yield premium at FLL vs. MCO? I am not sure that is very big... Both are large leisure destinations - translation low yield.

Concourse C at MCO? Huh? Last time I checked they had Airsides 1-4 and an A and B side to the main passenger terminal. Do you mean the completion of Airside 4 (about 10 gates)? I have heard that MCO evenually plans aniother duplicate terminal (presumably C/D ares of a central terminal and Airsides 5-8 at full build out...) but I have never heard of a "Concourse C" at MCO.

Just because LUV is not at MIA is no reason to keep JB out. That certainly wasn't the rationale at JFK and others. I think the local traffic on JFK-MIA is huge, and JB would do well. MIA as a spoke and FLL as a focus city could do well for JB... seems to work for AA in reverse. JFK-MIA would also take on AA/UA, which JB seems to do well with (i.e. LGB, OAK, SJU). But MIA will probably not overtake FLL at JB's So.Fla. home. FLL is the low-cost prefered airport in So.Fla. I don't expect that to change.

I would be concerned if JB starts flying FLL-BUF/ROC/SYR. I would imagine those markets sizes to be small and low yield. They would do well to continue to funnel pax through JFK. I am sure that JB already gets its fair share of pax on these routes on a connecting basis. Even if they added nonstops, they would be extremely seasonal. I think JB has bigger fish to fry than FLL-SYR.

Yield premium at FLL vs. MCO? I am not sure that is very big... Both are large leisure destinations - translation low yield

Yeah, there are yield premiums. I'm not calling Ft. Lauderdale a huge money making market. It makes money for many carriers, but it's no New York City. However, it is a lot heavier on the business traffic...Office Depot, FPL, ANC Auto Rental, AutoNation, Citrix Systems, TriArc...than Orlando is.

I think the local traffic on JFK-MIA is huge, and JB would do well. MIA as a spoke and FLL as a focus city could do well for JB... seems to work for AA in reverse.

Totally agree. There is no better example of an airline making use of one of thier hub's secondary airports than what AA does at MIA. This winter, AA will offer up to 38 daily flights from Ft. Lauderdale not only to thier Dallas, O'Hare, San Juan, and St. Louis hubs, but also to Boston, Caracas, LaGuardia, Los Angeles, Nassau, Port-Au-Prince, Raleigh-Durham, and Santo Domingo, which are some of AA's biggest O&D markets from MIA (FLL-LAX is now running at four daily flights on AA alone). jetBlue could do a great job and capitalize on what is thier second largest local customer base by offering them some options out of Miami to JFK.

I would be concerned if JB starts flying FLL-BUF/ROC/SYR. I would imagine those markets sizes to be small and low yield. They would do well to continue to funnel pax through JFK. I am sure that JB already gets its fair share of pax on these routes on a connecting basis. Even if they added nonstops, they would be extremely seasonal. I think JB has bigger fish to fry than FLL-SYR.

The Miami-SYR/ROC/BUF markets all have more than 300 O&D passengers per day. Buffalo is one of the largest O&D markets from Miami/Lauderdale not served non-stop, and visa-versa. FLL does have daily non-stop service to SYR, on a 757-200ER, that goes out full every single day. The market is huge between the Miami area, which has more New York state migrants than any other area in the country, and secondary New York cities. While demand is heavier in the winter, obviously, it is a strong year-round market just like South Florida-New York City is.

 

[JFK777]

JetBlue at MIA provides some interesting possibilities. JFK-MIA would be the anchor, but MIA-LGB would compete with LAX, MIA-LAX is a big enough market itself. Miami-SJU, OAK, BOS, ORD, IAD and who knows, these are just market JB serves. JB needs to find a western hub with growth potential, now that they have JFK, IAD, soon BOS, and FLL the coast to coast flying is taken care of.

IS JB going after the SW model with what amounts to a series of regional airlines connecting at various points? JB 's growth will be interesting to watch, with service from JFK to practically every major market except Chicago and Texas. A Caribean strategy is something I hope JB avoids, SJU should be alone in this area. California should feature prominantly in JB's future. I think Vegas baby VEGAS is the answer. Those casino's buy lots of goods and their guests have to fly there, most of them anyways. Fly JBm Fly.