Iraq - what do we do now?

[jimntx]

So lets hear your plan!

Pull out now! Let them kill each other as they have been wanting to do for centuries. And, let Iran and Syria deal with the instability in the Middle East that they helped to create.

A few oil companies might go out of business or have to merge with another and, Americans might have to pay the same price for gas that the rest of the world has been paying for years, BUT no more American young people would be getting killed for the sake of people who could care less.

Now that may not be much of a plan in your eyes, but it's one more plan than Bush and company have.

 

[local 12 proud]

Pull out now! Let them kill each other as they have been wanting to do for centuries. And, let Iran and Syria deal with the instability in the Middle East that they helped to create.

A few oil companies might go out of business or have to merge with another and, Americans might have to pay the same price for gas that the rest of the world has been paying for years, BUT no more American young people would be getting killed for the sake of people who could care less.

Now that may not be much of a plan in your eyes, but it's one more plan than Bush and company have.

Brilliant... 🙄

 

[jimntx]

I realize that you think that anyone who disagrees with your myopic world view and politics is a Communist, but...

I am from a family that has served this country since the 1600's. My brother is a retired Army colonel. His daughter is a junior at West Point. My sister's older son is a test pilot at Nellis AFB in Las Vegas. I support the military. I do NOT support the use of our military to protect Halliburton's interests. By the way, you know how Bush and Cheney told us that Iraq's oil would pay for the reconstruction? Well, KBR, a Halliburton subsidiary, has pulled out of Iraq after collecting over $3 BILLION U.S. tax dollars. The main Iraq pipeline was just blown up again last week. So far, Iraq's oil has payed for squat. You and I and over 3000 young Americans have been the only one's paying anything for this fiasco.

And, as of last week, the Iraq war has now lasted longer than our involvement in WWII in which we defeated both Nazi Germany and Japan. You don't see anything wrong with this picture?

It is NOT our job to stop people from killing each other who have been trying to do it since before the Bible was written.

 

[jimntx]

And, now...

Colin Powell says civil war is the correct term.

 

[Flying Titan]

So lets hear your plan!

Local 12, Delldude, Seatacus...
Perhaps this question should be directed at you. I've already stated what I think we should do. Fortunately, I think others are starting to come around to that position. Sen. Biden has come out with a partition / loose federation plan. The Baker Commission may come out with similar recommendations. What's YOUR plan?? - other than stay the course.

 

[Ch. 12]

Local 12, Delldude, Seatacus...
Perhaps this question should be directed at you. I've already stated what I think we should do. Fortunately, I think others are starting to come around to that position. Sen. Biden has come out with a partition / loose federation plan. The Baker Commission may come out with similar recommendations. What's YOUR plan?? - other than stay the course.

Oh no! Don't ask 12 for his plan b/c he can't figure it out and will just reply with a childish rant. Something like "your momma had a plan". He has refused time and time again to present a plan even when he has held people's feet to the fire and they have responded.

But after months, I'm still waiting, local 12...what IS your plan? Many of us have told you ours and you don't even read them let alone try to create one of your own. You are a just a third-rate wind-up artist with those tactics.

 

[UAL_TECH]

In WWII we had a draft and every eligible male soul that could not get a deferment or be classified as 4F was a boot on the ground. Not to mention the fact that we dropped 2 Nukes on Japan to loosen them up.

The difference between WWII and our current situation is commitment.

If were where willing to bring back the draft and overwhelm the country with troops, then there is a certain chance that this ‘situation’ is winnable. The problem, it’s too little too late and this situation will have to be revisited by the next generation.

B) UT

 

[QA4Jet-A]

In WWII we had a draft and every eligible male soul that could not get a deferment or be classified as 4F was a boot on the ground. Not to mention the fact that we dropped 2 Nukes on Japan to loosen them up.

The difference between WWII and our current situation is commitment.

If were where willing to bring back the draft and overwhelm the country with troops, then there is a certain chance that this ‘situation’ is winnable. The problem, it’s too little too late and this situation will have to be revisited by the next generation.

B) UT

and let's not forget the fact that we did not win WWII without help from Austrailia, Russia, the UK and a few others.

I stated on a different Thread a while back about my own idea of a solution. Let the Iraqi Government divide up the land so each of the 3 conflicting factions can have their own land. The kurds to the North, the Sunni's & Shiites their own. The latter two can play Bingo to decide for all I care as they will continue to fight each other no matter where they live. They just aren't a "Fun-Loving" bunch of folks I'd invite over for a Sunday BBQ.

I also read the Iranian Presidents' letter today addressed to we, the American People. Amusing to say the least. I do agree Palistinians need their own space but so do the Israeli's. Just curious how this BB reacts on that one. There is enough land over there for all or them to live peacefully. Perhaps, it is time for them to figure it out and leave each other alone. An 'Ideal' thought, but we know it won't happen in our lifetime.

In closing, I'd rate stopping 'al Qaida' with curing cancer. May tomorrow find Peace & Kindness with your day.

QA

 

[Ch. 12]

In closing, I'd rate stopping 'al Qaida' with curing cancer. May tomorrow find Peace & Kindness with your day.

Then you'd be happy to look at our budget over the past few years. We have indeed removed billions of dollars of funding from scientific research to help pay the bills for Iraq. Looks like it has been deemed MORE important to stop al qaida than to cure diseases. It's more important to stop them than to educate or provide healthcare as well.

Who cares if we "beat" (didn't we already accomplish the mission) an extremist faction that is not attacking us in our homeland anymore (not b/c we've stretched our forces thin and recklessly put them in harm's way around the middle east but b/c we've put domestic policies in place and been more vigilant on the home-front to defend) if we end up falling severely behind the world in education (we were already well behind), science (we are soon going to be passed by China and India), and we don't care about healthcare or at least cracking down on run-away healthcare insurance companies. What will we have "won"? (especially since I just noted that we ARE protecting ourselves on the domestic front). And at what cost? Bush and Co. have done an extremely good job at marketing to get you and others to believe that our mission in Iraq (which was NEVER based on al qaida...remember?) is equally as important as curing a disease that kills millions of people a year. In fact...Bush and Co. have made it more important by taking funding from scientific research to cure it and other diseases.

 

[KCFlyer]

In WWII we had a draft and every eligible male soul that could not get a deferment or be classified as 4F was a boot on the ground. Not to mention the fact that we dropped 2 Nukes on Japan to loosen them up.

The difference between WWII and our current situation is commitment.

If were where willing to bring back the draft and overwhelm the country with troops, then there is a certain chance that this ‘situation’ is winnable. The problem, it’s too little too late and this situation will have to be revisited by the next generation.

B) UT

I agree that we need to bring back the draft, but if we did that, those folks whose support for this war consists of a $1.99 magnetic yellow ribbon on their car might think long and hard if their support meant sending their kid to fight it.

Something else about WWII...some of the men who weren't accepted in the US military went to Canada to try to GET IN to THEIR military. That is the definition of support for a cause. Compare that to today, where if you ask an avid war supporter if they would send their kid to Iraq, the response is "It's an all volunteer Army and I can't force an adult to do anything...although I'd strongly encourage them to serve". Translated that means "Whew...Johnny dodged a bullet on that one"

 

[Leto2]

I realize that you think that anyone who disagrees with your myopic world view and politics is a Communist, but...

I am from a family that has served this country since the 1600's. My brother is a retired Army colonel. His daughter is a junior at West Point. My sister's older son is a test pilot at Nellis AFB in Las Vegas. I support the military. I do NOT support the use of our military to protect Halliburton's interests. By the way, you know how Bush and Cheney told us that Iraq's oil would pay for the reconstruction? Well, KBR, a Halliburton subsidiary, has pulled out of Iraq after collecting over $3 BILLION U.S. tax dollars. The main Iraq pipeline was just blown up again last week. So far, Iraq's oil has payed for squat. You and I and over 3000 young Americans have been the only one's paying anything for this fiasco.

And, as of last week, the Iraq war has now lasted longer than our involvement in WWII in which we defeated both Nazi Germany and Japan. You don't see anything wrong with this picture?

It is NOT our job to stop people from killing each other who have been trying to do it since before the Bible was written.

Comparing a war today to WWII is a very bad comparison. War has changed a lot since then. It's guerilla warfare instead of all out power. And we're fighting terrorists, not a sovereign nation.
Besides, if you're going to compare this to WWII, then why not use more than what's in line with your agenda? Why not compare casualties? This war isn't costing us a fraction of what WWII cost us--especially in lives--yet here you are pouting about it. If Americans had the guts that they had during WWII, this thread would be a lot different.

Check this video out to see how much things have changed since WWII. If the media was feeding us stuff like this instead of a casualty count, how differently would Americans feel?

However, I'm kind of starting to agree with you that it's not our job to get Shiites and Sunnis and Kurds to stop killing each other. Nevertheless, what we started we need to end. A lot of their blood would be on our hands if we just pick up and leave now. I'm for more intensive training of the Iraqi's and letting them do more and more of the work until we can totally let them take the wheel. From what I've heard and read, they are taking more control and that's a step in the right direction.

 

[Ch. 12]

Comparing a war today to WWII is a very bad comparison. War has changed a lot since then. It's guerilla warfare instead of all out power. And we're fighting terrorists, not a sovereign nation.
Besides, if you're going to compare this to WWII, then why not use more than what's in line with your agenda? Why not compare casualties? This war isn't costing us a fraction of what WWII cost us--especially in lives--yet here you are pouting about it. If Americans had the guts that they had during WWII, this thread would be a lot different.

How is this war different than WWII (a non-media-hyped, no-agenda view...)?

WWII: Hitler invaded Central/Western Europe and Russia
Iraq: Bush invaded Iraq

WWII: US Involvement was due to being threatened at home as well as vast swaths of allied territory being recklessly invaded and ransacked.
Iraq: US Involvement was due to Bush taking snippets of intelligence and making it look like Iraq had weapons. Why hit Iraq and not Iran, N Korea, India, Pakistan, Russia, France, Israel, etc who all have WMDs?

If Americans don't have the "guts", it's b/c we are fighting a bullsh$% war that WE started from OUR invasion. The implications of the WWII conflict were and always will be far more reaching than our invasion of Iraq will ever be. If you think the fact that these wars are fought on very different principles and with very different motives (i.e. defensive vs. offensive) makes Americans "sissies", you must not comprehend the issues at hand. It is not nearly as simple as you state.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

The implications of the WWII conflict were and always will be far more reaching than our invasion of Iraq will ever be.

Good post. I want to add something though in regard to your "implications" sentence.

In my view, the implications of the WWII conflict would have been far greater if we did NOT get involved as compared to the Iraq situation if we did NOT get involved. In other words, we wouldn't have been at excessive risk if we didn't get involved with Iraq... but if we didn't get involved in WWII, the risks would have been pouring down our throat.

But, since we are involved in Iraq, the implications (years down the road) may be far greater than anyone imagined in 2002. I believe the US is hated more now than it was in 2002 and I believe that lines are now being drawn and countries are being forced into picking sides. Before the Iraq invasion, it was a voluntary choice to pick sides.

 

[local 12 proud]

Who's Really
Killing Iraqis?

The Real 2006
'Iraq Body Count'

Iraqi civilians killed this year by ISLAMIC Terrorists
15,541

Iraqi civilians killed collaterally in incidents involving Americans
138*

*Source: IraqBodyCount.net (includes civilians caught in crossfire who may have been killed by the terrorists)

 

[KCFlyer]

Who's Really
Killing Iraqis?

The Real 2006
'Iraq Body Count'

Iraqi civilians killed this year by ISLAMIC Terrorists
15,541

Iraqi civilians killed collaterally in incidents involving Americans
138*

*Source: IraqBodyCount.net (includes civilians caught in crossfire who may have been killed by the terrorists)

How many Iraqis did Islamic terrorists kill before we overthrew Saddam?