Is it me or do I smell merger?

[nycbusdriver]

----------------
On 7/17/2003 11:41:17 AM gilbertguy wrote:

You may not be too far off....talk over at UA side of this website is US planning to sell off assets, including giving our Airbii''s to UA....

----------------​

They just started that rumor to counterbalance the rumor that UAL 757s (owned by evil Dr. Bronner''s RSA) will be coming to USAirways. The rumor goes that UAL is trying to pound Bronner in bankruptcy court on the lease rates for about 40 RSA-owned 757s...and Bronner is not budging saying "pay the price or return fleet." I don''t believe that one, either, but it makes for great gossip!

 

[737nCH11]

Keep telling yourself that Chip old boy. You''re dancing as fast as you can.

 

[LavMan]

UA''s 757s have differant engines and US is not looking to increase the fleet, they are looking to cut it.

 

[passed_over]

Chip,

I am not sure that you are thinking that clearly. The dismal performance of MESA and there inability to put the rj''s online as scheduled under ther contract and also there dismal on time and completion factor are just a few reasons why us will continue to struggle to get back to a top notch carrier

 

[a320av8r]

Has the increased foreign ownership been approved yet?

I agree with Chip, U will be a stand alone carrier with Star Alliance.

UAL pulling out of the east, USA has pulled out of the west.
Star hubs in US will be CLT, PHL, ORD, DEN(?), SFO. USA/UAL will be operated as one carrier but separately (as is now).
I fly regularly PHL/PIT/CLT - SFO and DEN and LOTS of conx to US* and UA*. UAX will feed IAD international.

Look for Star (LH) investment in both carriers.

Thats my crystal ball.

 

[PITbull]

----------------
On 7/17/2003 2:43:39 PM diogenes wrote:


----------------​

------------------------------------------------------------

Dave won''t have to ask for more concessions; the seeds of atrophy and dissolution are built into the concessionary contracts.

----------------

Dio,

Your thread above speaks to the "manifestation" of what will be fruition.

 

[Light Years]

MSP, DTW, PHL, CLT, NRT hubs, unparalleled coverage of both the East and Midwest, Carribbean and Europe meet stong Pacific presence..... Airbuses narrow and wide, Embraers to replace the diesel 9s... perhaps a certain someone else is waiting in the wings. I mean, honestly, an airline with only two hubs, both on a coast, and three nearby focus cities? Could it be that we are just being pared down even more into that "missing puzzle piece"?

 

[willnotworkforfree]

----------------
On 7/17/2003 8:02:54 PM LavMan wrote:


UA''s 757s have differant engines and US is not looking to increase the fleet, they are looking to cut it.

----------------​

now Biff..where did you get that info?

 

[DCAflyer]

Gilbertguy said:

UA predicts that it will leave BK in Q4 '03 or Q1 '04....this is not too far off. Money? UA plans to get that U.S loan and it CAN be used to purchase another carrier. US is destined to be what Dave wants it to be. A regional carrier feeding UA and Star Alliance


DCAflyer responds:

Gil, from my vantagepoint, which admitedly is in the periphery, UAL does not appear to be any closer to emerging from C-11 than it was when it filed several months ago. They still don't appear to be anywhere near having a reorganization plan, their on-again off-again LCC details change almost weekly, they don't have exit financing (it seems to me that financeers aren't lining up to give them money), and the little piece of an emergence plan they do have hinges upon obtaining around $2B from a federally-guaranteed loan. The federal loan guarantee won't happen without a solid reorganization plan, exit financing, and creditor committee approval. Even then, who knows if the federal loan program funds will still be available if and when UAL irons all of these issues out. Remember, several Capitol Hill bigwigs want to jetison the program and we may see increased opposition to the program when UAL finally gets all its ducks in a row.

From my perspective, every day UAL remains in C-11 protection, the chances of it emerging become a little slimmer. When U entered bankruptcy, it had a solid plan that made bsuiness sense, it had financing, and it had the federal loan guarantee approval. It even had the backing of its employees. The plan changed and evolved, but we knew what we were doing and we did it in record time. Unfortunately, UAL seems to be having a problem figuring out what it wants to do and needs to do, what routes it will dump, and which hubs it will keep.

UAL is a LONG way from being able to purchase any airline and as Chip has pointed out, it certainly can't do that while in bankruptcy. For the time being, U will remain a stand-alone carrier and will continue its Carribean build-up and possibly begin service to South America or develop new transatlantic routes as the STAR relationship evolves.

My prediction is that UAL won't emerge from bankruptcy much before the end of 2004, and it very possibly could be a much longer haul than that.

 

[Fly]

Time shall tell. One thing we can all attest to is that the UA BoD is filled with sneaky, mean SOB''s, who are such a part of the ol boys network that we will never be "privy" to the goings on. Mark my words, when they are ready to come out, it will be fast and furious.

 

[DCAflyer]

LGA fleetservice said:

"It even had the backing of its employees"

Based on what I read on this board the employees didn't back it, they got clubbed like a baby seal on the beach with it.

When I pick up the New York Times two weeks before Christmas and read comments from your DIP financier like "What choice do they have, we'll Chapter 7 the place if they don't accept it." I find it hard to believe the employees "Backed" anything.

DCAflyer replies:

LGA, this board is not exactly a cross-section of the entire US Airways family. My point was, however, that GOING INTO bankruptcy, the labor groups had already made their first round of consessions. There is no argument that there have been obstaces and turbulance in the relationship that U has with its employees. But I think most employees realize that but for our massive reorganization, US Airways would already have been out of business.


LGA fleetservice asked:

One more question...for someone on the outside like you are, how do you know UAL doesn't have financiers interested in lending them money? Contrary to popular belief there are things taking place regarding UAL's bankruptcy proceeding that Chip isn't privy to.


DCAflyer replies:

As I said, I was not privy to the information. But I have seen no public information that UAL is close to having lined up its exit financing. Comparing U to UAL, the total filing-to-emergence time for US Airways was 232 days. UAL has already been in bankruptcy 221 days, just 11 days shy of the total US Airways reorganization time. Granted, there have always been a lot more issues that UAL needs to iron out; nobody disputes that. But still, why don't you tell me what UAL has done to dig itself out if its hole. Why don't you tell me who plans to lend it money. Why don't you tell me how the company plans to emerge when what little bit of a plan it does have at the present time is only remotely workable if it receives a federal loan guarantee which may or may not happen? What contingency plans does it have if the federal government jetisons the loan guarantee program or denies UAL's application again? And how in the hell does UAL think it can possibly emerge by the end of the year? Remember, I know that UAL had a lot more issues to work out than U did, however, there are that many more obstacles to UAL getting the federal guarantee.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

"It even had the backing of its employees"

Based on what I read on this board the employees didn''t back it, they got clubbed like a baby seal on the beach with it.

When I pick up the New York Times two weeks before Christmas and read comments from your DIP financier like "What choice do they have, we''ll Chapter 7 the place if they don''t accept it." I find it hard to believe the employees "Backed" anything.

One more question...for someone on the outside like you are, how do you know UAL doesn''t have financiers interested in lending them money?

Contrary to popular belief there are things taking place regarding UAL''s bankruptcy proceeding that Chip isn''t privy to.

 

[LavMan]

Only the Pilots, F/As and TWU had concessions going into bankruptcy at US, both IAM represented groups and the CWA did not have concessions in place.

 

[DCAflyer]

Lavman, you are right. I stand corrected.

DCAflyer

 

[767jetz]

----------------
On 7/18/2003 9:09:21 AM DCAflyer wrote:

Why don''t you tell me who plans to lend it money. Why don''t you tell me how the company plans to emerge when what little bit of a plan it does have at the present time is only remotely workable if it receives a federal loan guarantee which may or may not happen?

----------------​

TALKING TO THE GOVERNMENT
Brace said United, based in Elk Grove Village, Illinois, is holding "preliminary talks" with the Air Transportation Stabilization Board about securing exit financing through a loan guarantee.
The federal agency -- created after the Sept. 11 attacks to dole out up to $10 billion in guarantees for private sector loans -- denied United''s application requesting backing for 80 percent of a $2.0 billion loan last winter. That forced UAL to file for Chapter 11, which protects a company from creditors while it reorganizes it finances.
Brace declined to comment on whether United was interested in a private equity investment in the airline. But he said: "A lot of people have expressed interest in investing in us."