Issues Affecting Canadian Industry?

[cyclic monkey]

Ned and Mike, my apologies to you both as you seemed to misunderstand the subtle tone of humour in my post. It was intended to elicit the type of responses that we got from the other regulars on this site.
If the boys don't tease you........then you'll know you've lost their respect.
Good luck on your respective trips to operators next week. Keep up the good work.

 

[walterheneghan]

I think that it is time for a magazine to do a layout dealing with the Human Resource and Canada Labour Code issues that dog our industry. How pilots get paid, abuse of "banked time" by companies, stat and holiday pay. Management pressures to fly past CAR's limits...in effect, a "b@llsy" article about the nastier side of the industry and the types of things that employers do to nickle and dime their employees (pilots and AME's).

So there... :hide:

 

[Over-Talk]

WalterH, good idea, but the editors might not get too "ballsy" against the companies that pay for advertising in their magazines.

There are some companies out there that treat their staff excellently. Maybe a story about these companies will help to pull up the standards of the others.

As always, if something stinks in this business, please use the Confidential Reporting Service of the TSB. They would rather read your report, and act on it, than see you have an accident and then have to write a report on you.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/securitas/index.asp

 

[Big Duke 6]

:huh: Blackmac, no disrepect, I'm only trying to play the devil's advocate in my response. The statement you made regarding the "industry" I think is a little too presumptious.

- "Speaking for the helicopter industry it should be re-regulated to get rid of the shady operators, advise all government departments to write thier scope of work around the company the meets all requirements with respect to safety, providing the properly equipped helicopter, pilot qualifications based on the companies recommendation for the work to be carried out."

What gives you that right on a public forum? As for de-regulation, that was put in place to try and create a more open playing field, buy incouraging free enterprize based on common buisness practices throughout the rest of the aviation world. Thus operators that weren't innovative and couldn't compete were effectively eliminated. Unfortunatly some of them have very deep pockets and continue to plague the industry. Given enough time they too, will go the way of so many before them. As for the client, they must have a say in the type of helicopter required, and the qulification's of the pilot. They are after all, the people that are providing the work. However that DOES NOT allow operators to neglect there obligation to CARS, the Canada Labour Code, and other regulatory bodies governing buisness in this country.... As for HEPAC lobbing industry to dictate "operator" contracts, that's what HAC is for.
Don't take this the wrong way.... I do beleive in an association that looks after the concerns of pilots and engineers. I'am only playing the devils advocate because I personally don't what to see HEPAC loose there focus, by tackling issues that are far reaching, and will consume all of your hard work and time. HAC is there to work in conjuction with operators and Transport Canada to better address the issues faced by the helicopter industry and the regulations that effect vertical flight only. 😉
As for Ned and Mike's magazines I think they are an invaluable tool for our industry and encourage them to keep doing what there doin'.

This again, is only my humble opinion. 😀
Cheers, BD6.

 

[twinstar_ca]

is it not also an issue for you guys in the development of the new drivers coming up?? these guys spend a whack of $$$ to get the licence and then comes the road trips that we read about and hear how much perseverance and attitude is needed and how long it can take to get that foot in the door...

there is no formal incentive to an employer to hire the low timers and develop them into acceptable risks to the insurance/clients/etc...

in an ideal world, HRDC should be able to make some kind of financial incentive to the owners/operators to bring these guys and girls on and groom them for their operations... there will also need to be accountability on the part of the operator to use those incentives for the purpose they were intended...

 

[tDawe]

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned Insurance yet. Could it be that costs really are coming down? Forgive me if I don't hold my breath. Insurance may not be that interesting to read about it, but I'm sure all the low timers out there are very interested in knowing whether its becoming more feasible to insure them on the company bird.

 

[HeloTeacher]

is it not also an issue for you guys in the development of the new drivers coming up?? these guys spend a whack of $$$ to get the licence and then comes the road trips that we read about and hear how much perseverance and attitude is needed and how long it can take to get that foot in the door...

there is no formal incentive to an employer to hire the low timers and develop them into acceptable risks to the insurance/clients/etc...

in an ideal world, HRDC should be able to make some kind of financial incentive to the owners/operators to bring these guys and girls on and groom them for their operations... there will also need to be accountability on the part of the operator to use those incentives for the purpose they were intended...

The constant talks about attitude are needed because so many students go to the schools with the attitude that a licence should and will guarantee them employment. There is a need to educate them on this. A diploma or degree doesn't quarantee a job any more than a licence or anything else. People are hired when they are deemed to be an asset to the organization.

The advantage to hire low-time help is the reduced costs of emplyment. More experienced pilots demand higher wages, pretty simple.

Further incentives, long term employee loyalty, are foreign to aviation because the same operators that fly the types accessable by low-time pilots soon lose their shine in the eyes of these pilots. They look up to new types and disappear as soon as they can.

Its a bitter cycle but we are as much to blame as the employers.

 

[Blackmac]

Big Duke: You have the advantage of knowing who I am and with all due respect, I lived through Canadian Transportation Commission and was the one at Viking responsible for filing tariff's.

The depression started in 1982 and then deregulation in 1987, I started working for the government in 1988 dealing only with Air Charters on both flingwing and stiffwing. I dealt with most operators across Canada and know the results that de-regulation had and still has on the industry.

De-regulation was fine for the stiff wing part of the "Air Taxi" as it reflected more on passenger revenue and cargo on selected routes. Not so for the helicopter industry, we are a totally different, we do not have selected routes.

Would you please tell me what HAC has done for engineers and pilots and or the helicopter industry in relation to rates, which reflect the pay of engineers and pilots.

The story of rates goes back to the days of when helicopter people would meet agree to raise rates and then as soon as the meeting was over call there office and lower rates. That was the days of CTC and you could only change your tariff on 48 hr notice.

In reality in todays so-called free market that we have been living with since 1987 has resulted in what?????? PLEASE ADVISE.

My suggestion on re-regulating the industry starting of with minimums and a minimum hourly rate based on the value or whatever is much like an auction with a reserve minimum bid. Then the operator would be getting value for his investment and in return be able to pay reasonable salaries to his crews and afford insurance for low time pilots.

That is exactly what was happening before de-regulation.

Agree or disagree is your option.

Cheers HEPAC

 

[twitch]

Blackmac says...

"Big Duke: You have the advantage of knowing who I am and with all due respect, I lived through Canadian Transportation Commission and was the one at Viking responsible for filing tariff's."

Ahh no doubt from the comfortable corporate board room located at the "Twin Oaks" Ya..Those were the days!!!!!! 🙄 🙄 With Larry, Earl and John supplying all the liquid support!

twitch 😉 😉 😉

By the way cyclic monkey I also was quite suprised by the..... Lets say "touchy" response.... to your humorous post :unsure:

 

[Big Duke 6]

Blackmac, I'm not trying to de-rail your hardwork, I do agree with the tremendous efforts all of you have done to create HEPAC. I agree HAC has not addressed any issues regarding engineer and pilot concerns, hopefully thats where HEPAC and HAC will address these topics together and present them to Operators and Transport Canada. As for re-regulating, Again I'm only trying to play the devil's advocate in my response. Shouldn't the" minimum reserve bid", be your DOC's. The operators bid should reflect DOC's and whatever value they view as return on there investment. This should include resonable salaries for there crews and yes, if the operator wants to encourage a low timer he can pay the higher premium. However at the end of the day the operator needs to make a "buck" or they won't last very long. Thus the whole free enterprize issue and riding the industry of operators that drive tarrifs into the perverbial toilet. We do however, need quality operations to provide all of us with the tools to go to work do we not? Personally, I think we need to better educate our customers on our needs and reqiurments as most of them do realize the benefit of a quality end product. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply trying to bring your cause to the fore-front buy trying to encourage and envoke further discussion on this, and many other topics which desperatly need to be addressed. Looking at the current industry trend, barring another stellar fire year. We may be poised for another "down-turn".

Blackmac, hats off to you and all the others who have spent a lot of there own spare time seeing HEPAC take form. Kudos, that includes Kyle for providing a place for "minds to meet". Keep up the good work.

Hopefully, Mike (Vertical Mag) and Ned (Heli-Ops) will take the hint. As the forum suggest's these are issue's affecting our industry. 😉

Again, this only my humble opinion.
Cheers.

 

[Over-Talk]

Blackmac, thanks for your efforts in getting HEPAC started. I am sure you are still working hard, along with Kyle and maybe others, to get it all formalised. For this work we are very grateful.

However, your posts are titled to be from Blackmac, and yet they are signed to be from HELICOPTER ENGINEERS AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION, CANADA.

I understand that at this time, you ALONE are HEPAC, so this may be splitting hairs...........but could you please adopt two Titles so that we know who the post is from.

As you have been reminded on several occasions, some of your personal opinions are quite volcanic.
You are entitled to express these opinions, and they are as welcome as anyone elses, but it would be better for us to know if this is the Official position of the young HEPAC, or the personal opinion of the very experienced Blackmac.

Sincere thanks, OT

 

[Big Duke 6]

OT, You took the words right outa' me mouth. 😉

 

[Blackmac]

O.K. Talk to much, I get your message. I tried to register as one of my other names, HEPAC or DonMcDougall but we all have the same E-Mail, the system will not let me do dat.

So in future and up until we have a members only web site I have been signing posts as personal or HEPAC on items that I think the assoc. should be persuing.

If you are confused, what about me????

Cheers, Don

PS: My signature at the bottom also says TIMEX.

 

[Over-Talk]

Blackmac, you are correct in that CAaviation will only allow one Title per e-mail address, so here are a couple of suggestions so that HEPAC can get it's own Title.

1) Ask Kyle for an e-mail address such as HEPAC@CAaviation.com. (you may already have one). Use this as the e-mail address that you register HEPAC from on these forums.

2) Go to hotmail.com and set up an e-mail address such as HEPAC (@hotmail.com). This is quite easy, free, and only takes a few minutes. Use this as the e-mail address that you register HEPAC from on these forums.

Either one of these will be useful as I suspect that HEPAC will want to have its own e-mail address very soon anyway, if it doesn't have one already.

P.S. the hint was not that you talk too much (your wife may disagree), it's just that we need to know exactly WHO we are listening too !!

 

[Blackmac]

OT, in about three weeks there will be no requirement to e-mail any thing to me as all members will be able to talk freely on our own members only thread.

So in the meantime I will refrain from making any comments on behalf of HEPAC, allthough they are my thoughts. Anything expressed by me is items I believe in and will be persued if so approved by the board of directors. I will not persue anything that is not in the best interest of all members.

What more can I say, cheers Don.