It's Going To Be A Bumpy Ride
- Thread starter Flyboy4u
- Start date
- Status
upsilon
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 372
- 2
I have been reading regularly and posting occasionally on this board for several years and also on the former Plane Business board. In that time I have read many provocative posts from AA FA and responses from other AA FA and from AA pax.
But in a little over a month, since 19 September and in just over 300 posts, wrx has succeeded in spouting off more venom than any previous poster I have read.
As a 3mm AAdvantage flyer, it scares the sh*t out of me that he might be working my next international flight. But from his expressed attitude, I may have already done so. On a flight LHR-JFK I was literally cursed by the FA when I complained that neither he nor the other C class FA had been seen for almost two hours. There had been only the Coach FAs passing back and forth for whatever reasons.
In those days we had SomeOne Special coupons we could give to AA staff. I made it plain to him that he was not getting a SOS; but instead AA would get a letter about his service. His remarks were in-line with the words used by wrx in posts on this board
But in a little over a month, since 19 September and in just over 300 posts, wrx has succeeded in spouting off more venom than any previous poster I have read.
As a 3mm AAdvantage flyer, it scares the sh*t out of me that he might be working my next international flight. But from his expressed attitude, I may have already done so. On a flight LHR-JFK I was literally cursed by the FA when I complained that neither he nor the other C class FA had been seen for almost two hours. There had been only the Coach FAs passing back and forth for whatever reasons.
In those days we had SomeOne Special coupons we could give to AA staff. I made it plain to him that he was not getting a SOS; but instead AA would get a letter about his service. His remarks were in-line with the words used by wrx in posts on this board
Yes, I remember you. I had the agent in JFK put notes on your reservation regarding how you had no regards to crew member instructions on electronic devices. So basically when you fly from now on you will be the "random" person who gets searched and questioned everytime you fly regarding what you did. When a crew member tells you to turn off your electronics, you need to do it. Not 10 minutes later or after 4 flight attendants tell you the same thing! Have fun next time you fly. When you do what you did, don't expect us to be nice to you during the flight.upsilon said:
I wasn't the one who used profanity towards you. But, I did support that flight attendant who did because you deserved what they called you. You're lucky you didn't get left behind in LHR. We almost had you removed from the flight. So when your letter shows up in about 3 months, I have already covered our butts!
A little FYI, SOS passes don't work for us anymore. AA decided to end that program. Don't try and flatter yourself saying you were not going to give us one.
Garfield1966
Veteran
Upsilon,upsilon said:
If you have been following this board for any length of time, I hope you understand that WRX (if he/she/it is a FA) does not represent the majority of AA. Odds are that he was not on your flight and had nothing to do with your experience. He has been spouting off half truths and lies.
I for one would like to extend my sincere apologies to you for your poor experience. I assume that since you have traveled with us for 3 million miles that this type of reaction from a crew member is the exception rather than the rule, at least I hope it is .
Thanks
upsilon
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 372
- 2
wrx, you are a real piece of work! You seem to think you can identify anyone who posts anything negative about your vitriolic mouthings. And again you are just plain wrong.
You said, “You're lucky you didn't get left behind in LHR. We almost had you removed from the flightâ€. I could not have been left behind at LHR because I never use a computer until after meal service. No FA has EVER had to speak to me about turning off electronics.
You said, “So when your letter shows up in about 3 months, I have already covered our butts! The experience I related was almost two years ago. It must not have been you because, if you see these letters, you would have seen mine by now.
I hope your lack of attention to detail in reading my post is not an indication of your attention to performing your job. FYI It is obvious that I would know that AA ended the SOS program at the end of 2002. The unpleasant experience about which I wrote happened when there WAS the SOS reward. Incidentally I gave away all my coupons on my most recent LHR-JFK flight that was last December.
You said, “You're lucky you didn't get left behind in LHR. We almost had you removed from the flightâ€. I could not have been left behind at LHR because I never use a computer until after meal service. No FA has EVER had to speak to me about turning off electronics.
You said, “So when your letter shows up in about 3 months, I have already covered our butts! The experience I related was almost two years ago. It must not have been you because, if you see these letters, you would have seen mine by now.
I hope your lack of attention to detail in reading my post is not an indication of your attention to performing your job. FYI It is obvious that I would know that AA ended the SOS program at the end of 2002. The unpleasant experience about which I wrote happened when there WAS the SOS reward. Incidentally I gave away all my coupons on my most recent LHR-JFK flight that was last December.
upsilon
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 372
- 2
Garfield 1966 and Art Tang: Thanks for your concerns. Don’t worry, I’ll take the rants of wrx for just what they are worth - Nothing! I have heard his type spouting off on this board for the several years I have been around. These posters come aboard, but sooner or later, they always go! He has just been more shrill in a much shorter period. He is such a regular and prolific poster, I find it difficult to determine just when he could possibly be an Attendant on any Flight. BTW, his gender is revealed by his own words in past posts.
FWIW, I have over 3 million AAdvantage miles; but thankfully not anything like that number of butt-in-the-seat miles on AA and all others combined, including military (where my flying was counted in hours). My AA award miles include bonus miles and a large chunk of TWA international miles. At 2mm I became Lifetime Platinum; thus I no longer need to fly AA to maintain status. Nevertheless, as it has been for almost 50 years, AA is my airline of choice when it flies where I am going.
But no longer having to scratch for status miles, I avoid AA to Europe via a transfer at LHR, CDG and ZRH. Instead I now fly LH, SA, KL and AU for direct flights, sparing myself from the intra-Europe “up-front†experience. Thus I have some comparisons.
Art Tang You don’t need to apologize. I am now a still active Senior businessman with a very many years flying experience on AA. I started work at the bottom (and at the back of the plane). Now I fly up-front for business (because clients, and airline miles and upgrades get me there) and also for pleasure (because I can now afford it). In my younger days, I knew many (and dated some) AA Stewardess {when that was the title on their wings badge). Incidentally, BA still use the designation of ‘Steward’ and ‘Stewardess’. In the many years I have been a pax, I estimate I have had less than 2% flights where I felt the service was less than expected. I smile, they smile and we all get along.
But I expect more when paying for premium service up front. I understand there may be problems that distract the senior F/A. But on the LHR-JFK flight I cited, the F/A from the back did not “coverâ€. They simply walked up and back with their eyes high. There must have been a lot of LO food up front or some sort of klatsch.
Even with the current restrictions, I would rather get up and go to the galley than push the ‘call’ button. So I wait for an FA to come by. When they do not, I feel I have not received what I have paid for.
But it still scares the sh*t out of me that wrx might be working my next international flight. And it also bothers me that he will be working on the flight of any AA pax. He has big problems. But his egotistical continued posting should eventually provide sufficient evidence to enable AA to identify him. If he then exhibits work attitudes and behavior consistent with his expressions in his posts here, there is no question he will no longer be working at AA or posting here. Even any successor to a recalled John Ward will be of no help.
FWIW, I have over 3 million AAdvantage miles; but thankfully not anything like that number of butt-in-the-seat miles on AA and all others combined, including military (where my flying was counted in hours). My AA award miles include bonus miles and a large chunk of TWA international miles. At 2mm I became Lifetime Platinum; thus I no longer need to fly AA to maintain status. Nevertheless, as it has been for almost 50 years, AA is my airline of choice when it flies where I am going.
But no longer having to scratch for status miles, I avoid AA to Europe via a transfer at LHR, CDG and ZRH. Instead I now fly LH, SA, KL and AU for direct flights, sparing myself from the intra-Europe “up-front†experience. Thus I have some comparisons.
Art Tang You don’t need to apologize. I am now a still active Senior businessman with a very many years flying experience on AA. I started work at the bottom (and at the back of the plane). Now I fly up-front for business (because clients, and airline miles and upgrades get me there) and also for pleasure (because I can now afford it). In my younger days, I knew many (and dated some) AA Stewardess {when that was the title on their wings badge). Incidentally, BA still use the designation of ‘Steward’ and ‘Stewardess’. In the many years I have been a pax, I estimate I have had less than 2% flights where I felt the service was less than expected. I smile, they smile and we all get along.
But I expect more when paying for premium service up front. I understand there may be problems that distract the senior F/A. But on the LHR-JFK flight I cited, the F/A from the back did not “coverâ€. They simply walked up and back with their eyes high. There must have been a lot of LO food up front or some sort of klatsch.
Even with the current restrictions, I would rather get up and go to the galley than push the ‘call’ button. So I wait for an FA to come by. When they do not, I feel I have not received what I have paid for.
But it still scares the sh*t out of me that wrx might be working my next international flight. And it also bothers me that he will be working on the flight of any AA pax. He has big problems. But his egotistical continued posting should eventually provide sufficient evidence to enable AA to identify him. If he then exhibits work attitudes and behavior consistent with his expressions in his posts here, there is no question he will no longer be working at AA or posting here. Even any successor to a recalled John Ward will be of no help.
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
Yo Up! Spittin' a bit of venom there at the midnight hour!
You have to keep a very important thing in mind, regardless of your loathing for specific posters on this board who happen to be AA/FAs (or maybe not who really knows) labor has legitimate complaints, and labor has just as much of a right, if not more, to vent as anyone else.
Do you know why AA just up and ended the SOS program? Because labor was getting sick and tired of having to perform like trained dogs for a stinkin' coupon to get a little recognition out of a customer that they could not otherwise get from their employer. The SOS program was a slap in the face to every employee at AA who got one. I suppose to you, it's like tossing your dog a 'beggin strip' for making you happy. Just like those AAchiever points, they weren't worth the toilet paper they were printed on. AA wasn’t rewarding their employees with fair wages and fair labor practices, so they were forcing them to “perform†for the customers to get points, and hope that the performance kept the customers coming back. Remember, those SOS points weren’t given to just any customer – I never used any, they went in the circular file.
As a frequent flyer with many miles, your tone seems to indicate to me that those miles have granted you some sort of status over AA employees or anyone else on board for that matter. It doesn't. I had those miles too, but I cut up the cards and shoved 'em up Don Carty's fanny long ago. They mean nothing. Just like the SOS and AAchiever programs treated employees like trained animals, the FF miles were AA's way of handing you a treat for performing just as the airline wants you to.
I don't doubt your on-board story one bit, in fact, I've had similar experiences. But that is exactly how karma works, sometimes it just recognizes the fact that you are over due, or in need of a good karmic bltch-slap, and sometimes it chooses an FA to deliver it. Sometimes it chooses a cab driver, a hotel clerk, a bank teller, or the customer service rep on the phone at your favorite porno movie club!
This thread started out by someone posting a rumor-based “article†regarding the possibility of a sick out over the holidays. It didn't say Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, it was non-specific, which is why I questioned it to begin with. I realize that labor has some very legitimate complaints. I see them every time I fly now, on the faces of stressed out gate agents and flight attendants who are so goddamned tired they can barely drag their rollaboard behind them! For that “honor†they forked over astronomical, never before heard of wage concessions and work rule changes, because Carty-the-liar told labor that if they didn’t, American would file bankruptcy and they would all be left to the perils of a bankruptcy judge who would more than likely put them out of a job. All the while, Carty-the-liar was secretly stuffing the pockets of the executive level corporate elite, who all knew about it, and no doubt were sitting back having a hefty chuckle at how stupid labor was for falling sucker to the plan. Carty-the-liar stepped down in mock shame, and Arpey stepped up, Arpey, who was in on, and benefited from the pocket stuffing. Nothing has changed, the pockets are still being filled, and million dollar golden parachute pensions are still in tact yet the same people who put AA in such horrible shape are STILL in control. Nothing has changed except labor has been kicked in the balls delivered on a wing-tipped foot with a macabre laugh.
Once the shield was removed from the truth of what Carty-the-liar had done, no one rushed to fix it, they decided instead to deliver even more blows to the labor force. Now, and it’s no secret, the company has handed labor a stripped down health care plan that has, among many other things, more than doubled and in some instances tripled the cost of their medications. With indifference to numerous complaints, the company has saddled labor yet again with another year of poor service from the prescription plan through Medco Health, a company fraught with bad management and charged with fraud by authorities who cite that the company routinely falsified records and made false statements, alleging that Medco Health destroyed prescriptions to avoid penalties for slowness in processing orders, put too few pills in bottles and improperly switched patients' medicines. Yet a company like that is good enough for AMR’s labor force – or so obviously believes AMR.
On top of the health care benefit farce, the company is currently in the process of holding “focus group meetings†where carefully hand picked “representatives†of agent groups throughout the company’s various stations are being brought to Dallas to “vote†on making changes to the agent’s seniority status. The key being, that the company is looking for a way to strip long term seniority away from those highest/max paid agents in order to up them frightfully higher toward the top of the list of those eligible for furlough, while junior agents who haven’t moved anywhere in the company yet, but are at low pay scales, will end up out ranking, seniority wise, long term agents upon whose backs the company was built. Can you smell it? Wait for it . . . . here it comes . . . .and to top it all off, AMR is investing HEAVILY into one-stop machines to bolster up an already in the works plan (the focus groups are a front in my opinion) to make astronomical cuts in the non unionized agent work force and replace them with one-stop machines – every intent is to “automate the customer†through kiosks and an internet website that most of the time is so slow it more than likely chases away as many customers as it hooks. You’ll end up with one agent per gate and no gate check-in capability. You’ll be directed to a one stop machine for all your needs from check in, to seat assignments, flight changes, voucher issues for voluntary and involuntary seat forfeits, meal and hotel vouchers for misconnects and flight cancellations and more and if the customer can’t figure it out, all the better for AA, who will reap revenue from unused tickets, and hundred dollar fees for re-issuing tickets for people who missed their flights because they can’t figure out how to do complex transactions on a one stop machine, not to mention those who will be waiting in the long lines behind them, wondering if the touch screen will be clean enough to work by they time they get to it, and hope they don’t pick something up from it when they get there. I can’t see how AMR could possibly hope to automate every passenger and to make one stop machines that understand every language, but my gut instinct says it’s definitely in the works, the “customer training†has already begun. I’ve used one stop machines, I hate them, they are error ridden filthy germ traps and you can’t clean off the screens, it requires special solutions to do it.
Do I think a sick out would be a good idea at this point? No, financially it would be a burden to AA. Do I think the flight attendants and/or gate agents have legitimate grievances that would warrant a sick out at this time? Most definitely. it is extremely unfortunate that it may come down to this, but labor has long grasped for a way to reach the ear of the employer, and drastic times require drastic measures. Since AMR’s Q3 revelation of 3.3 billion in cash, regardless of where it came from or how it was acquired, its turning a lot of employee’s heads right now. I’ve heard the talk and the grumblings. This message board is representative of but a fraction of the available aviation related boards and groups on the net. It has nearly 3,000 members, yet a scant couple of dozen do all of the posting. Many read this message board, it doesn’t require membership to do so. It is the opinions of those silent majorities that we’ll never know, but would most likely speak volumes if we did.
Customers like you, and me, and countless others, have dumped a lot of money into AA, and that's a lot of money that AA does NOT want to share with the very labor force that made it possible for AA to get it. There will be NO dividends paid by this company for a very long time so I won’t hear about the stockholders as a legitimate excuse for crapping all over labor. Corporate, and their idiotic fare structures and silly programs keep customers away. Labor, the front line "face" between company and passenger is what keeps customers coming back. The split second you forget that, or start tossing around chatter about the last trained dog you gave your SOS points to, the split second you start spouting off how much better you are than any of the employees taking care of you while you schmoozed your way from the back of the plane to the front - I really don't care how self-important you think you are, or how well trained AA thinks they have you as a "loyal customer" the fact remains that when your nose goes in the air, you forget that you are snubbing the very people who make it possible for that corporate structure to put your name on a membership card so they can keep your dollars rolling into their coffers. I’m an investor, and I recognize that, why can't you?
There are none more qualified to speak on the issue of AMR and it’s labor relations than an employee, no matter how much you may disagree with what they have to say, they are a far better authority than you or I. Regardless of whether it be WRX or someone else, the very fact that you loathe whatever opinion they have to offer, be it one you agree with or not, makes me wonder exactly which flag you reside under, let alone that the fact appears to be you are only concerned with what an employee action could do to your "status" with an airline. How myopic!
Airline labor is facing tough and uncertain times right now. We have to allow for the recognition of that fact. If the only participation you have to offer is to take a one-sided approach to the known problems, then perhaps silence would be your true calling on airline/labor relations.
You have to keep a very important thing in mind, regardless of your loathing for specific posters on this board who happen to be AA/FAs (or maybe not who really knows) labor has legitimate complaints, and labor has just as much of a right, if not more, to vent as anyone else.
Do you know why AA just up and ended the SOS program? Because labor was getting sick and tired of having to perform like trained dogs for a stinkin' coupon to get a little recognition out of a customer that they could not otherwise get from their employer. The SOS program was a slap in the face to every employee at AA who got one. I suppose to you, it's like tossing your dog a 'beggin strip' for making you happy. Just like those AAchiever points, they weren't worth the toilet paper they were printed on. AA wasn’t rewarding their employees with fair wages and fair labor practices, so they were forcing them to “perform†for the customers to get points, and hope that the performance kept the customers coming back. Remember, those SOS points weren’t given to just any customer – I never used any, they went in the circular file.
As a frequent flyer with many miles, your tone seems to indicate to me that those miles have granted you some sort of status over AA employees or anyone else on board for that matter. It doesn't. I had those miles too, but I cut up the cards and shoved 'em up Don Carty's fanny long ago. They mean nothing. Just like the SOS and AAchiever programs treated employees like trained animals, the FF miles were AA's way of handing you a treat for performing just as the airline wants you to.
I don't doubt your on-board story one bit, in fact, I've had similar experiences. But that is exactly how karma works, sometimes it just recognizes the fact that you are over due, or in need of a good karmic bltch-slap, and sometimes it chooses an FA to deliver it. Sometimes it chooses a cab driver, a hotel clerk, a bank teller, or the customer service rep on the phone at your favorite porno movie club!
This thread started out by someone posting a rumor-based “article†regarding the possibility of a sick out over the holidays. It didn't say Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, it was non-specific, which is why I questioned it to begin with. I realize that labor has some very legitimate complaints. I see them every time I fly now, on the faces of stressed out gate agents and flight attendants who are so goddamned tired they can barely drag their rollaboard behind them! For that “honor†they forked over astronomical, never before heard of wage concessions and work rule changes, because Carty-the-liar told labor that if they didn’t, American would file bankruptcy and they would all be left to the perils of a bankruptcy judge who would more than likely put them out of a job. All the while, Carty-the-liar was secretly stuffing the pockets of the executive level corporate elite, who all knew about it, and no doubt were sitting back having a hefty chuckle at how stupid labor was for falling sucker to the plan. Carty-the-liar stepped down in mock shame, and Arpey stepped up, Arpey, who was in on, and benefited from the pocket stuffing. Nothing has changed, the pockets are still being filled, and million dollar golden parachute pensions are still in tact yet the same people who put AA in such horrible shape are STILL in control. Nothing has changed except labor has been kicked in the balls delivered on a wing-tipped foot with a macabre laugh.
Once the shield was removed from the truth of what Carty-the-liar had done, no one rushed to fix it, they decided instead to deliver even more blows to the labor force. Now, and it’s no secret, the company has handed labor a stripped down health care plan that has, among many other things, more than doubled and in some instances tripled the cost of their medications. With indifference to numerous complaints, the company has saddled labor yet again with another year of poor service from the prescription plan through Medco Health, a company fraught with bad management and charged with fraud by authorities who cite that the company routinely falsified records and made false statements, alleging that Medco Health destroyed prescriptions to avoid penalties for slowness in processing orders, put too few pills in bottles and improperly switched patients' medicines. Yet a company like that is good enough for AMR’s labor force – or so obviously believes AMR.
On top of the health care benefit farce, the company is currently in the process of holding “focus group meetings†where carefully hand picked “representatives†of agent groups throughout the company’s various stations are being brought to Dallas to “vote†on making changes to the agent’s seniority status. The key being, that the company is looking for a way to strip long term seniority away from those highest/max paid agents in order to up them frightfully higher toward the top of the list of those eligible for furlough, while junior agents who haven’t moved anywhere in the company yet, but are at low pay scales, will end up out ranking, seniority wise, long term agents upon whose backs the company was built. Can you smell it? Wait for it . . . . here it comes . . . .and to top it all off, AMR is investing HEAVILY into one-stop machines to bolster up an already in the works plan (the focus groups are a front in my opinion) to make astronomical cuts in the non unionized agent work force and replace them with one-stop machines – every intent is to “automate the customer†through kiosks and an internet website that most of the time is so slow it more than likely chases away as many customers as it hooks. You’ll end up with one agent per gate and no gate check-in capability. You’ll be directed to a one stop machine for all your needs from check in, to seat assignments, flight changes, voucher issues for voluntary and involuntary seat forfeits, meal and hotel vouchers for misconnects and flight cancellations and more and if the customer can’t figure it out, all the better for AA, who will reap revenue from unused tickets, and hundred dollar fees for re-issuing tickets for people who missed their flights because they can’t figure out how to do complex transactions on a one stop machine, not to mention those who will be waiting in the long lines behind them, wondering if the touch screen will be clean enough to work by they time they get to it, and hope they don’t pick something up from it when they get there. I can’t see how AMR could possibly hope to automate every passenger and to make one stop machines that understand every language, but my gut instinct says it’s definitely in the works, the “customer training†has already begun. I’ve used one stop machines, I hate them, they are error ridden filthy germ traps and you can’t clean off the screens, it requires special solutions to do it.
Do I think a sick out would be a good idea at this point? No, financially it would be a burden to AA. Do I think the flight attendants and/or gate agents have legitimate grievances that would warrant a sick out at this time? Most definitely. it is extremely unfortunate that it may come down to this, but labor has long grasped for a way to reach the ear of the employer, and drastic times require drastic measures. Since AMR’s Q3 revelation of 3.3 billion in cash, regardless of where it came from or how it was acquired, its turning a lot of employee’s heads right now. I’ve heard the talk and the grumblings. This message board is representative of but a fraction of the available aviation related boards and groups on the net. It has nearly 3,000 members, yet a scant couple of dozen do all of the posting. Many read this message board, it doesn’t require membership to do so. It is the opinions of those silent majorities that we’ll never know, but would most likely speak volumes if we did.
Customers like you, and me, and countless others, have dumped a lot of money into AA, and that's a lot of money that AA does NOT want to share with the very labor force that made it possible for AA to get it. There will be NO dividends paid by this company for a very long time so I won’t hear about the stockholders as a legitimate excuse for crapping all over labor. Corporate, and their idiotic fare structures and silly programs keep customers away. Labor, the front line "face" between company and passenger is what keeps customers coming back. The split second you forget that, or start tossing around chatter about the last trained dog you gave your SOS points to, the split second you start spouting off how much better you are than any of the employees taking care of you while you schmoozed your way from the back of the plane to the front - I really don't care how self-important you think you are, or how well trained AA thinks they have you as a "loyal customer" the fact remains that when your nose goes in the air, you forget that you are snubbing the very people who make it possible for that corporate structure to put your name on a membership card so they can keep your dollars rolling into their coffers. I’m an investor, and I recognize that, why can't you?
There are none more qualified to speak on the issue of AMR and it’s labor relations than an employee, no matter how much you may disagree with what they have to say, they are a far better authority than you or I. Regardless of whether it be WRX or someone else, the very fact that you loathe whatever opinion they have to offer, be it one you agree with or not, makes me wonder exactly which flag you reside under, let alone that the fact appears to be you are only concerned with what an employee action could do to your "status" with an airline. How myopic!
Airline labor is facing tough and uncertain times right now. We have to allow for the recognition of that fact. If the only participation you have to offer is to take a one-sided approach to the known problems, then perhaps silence would be your true calling on airline/labor relations.
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
Sorry, it can't be paranoia when it's staring them right in the face.
- Status
