JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

http://www.investors.com/news/how-would-brexit-affect-american-delta-and-united/?ven=yahoo&src=AURLLED

So, it looks like American will take a big hit with the Brexit.

Meanwhile, we have put ourselves in a position where time may be running out on this window of opportunity. These jokers better get us the industry leading contract that was doable over the past 6 months, and I hope they don't continue D*ing around pounding their chest. If we get left out of industry leading wages, scope, profit sharing, health care then that will be total Bull S.

These guys better finish the job we are paying them to do.

Sorry fellas but the Weasle and his madness suggesting that we stay at the table and sweat even the small stuff, even when we are NOT in section 6 and the company doesn't even have to be negotiating with us, just isn't sound thinking. 3.5 years after the merger and our negotiation committee claims that it hasn't even discussed wages, health care, pension, scope. I don't know about Weasle, but by any fair standards, that is absolute Bull S that our Labor Organization hasn't even passed proposals back and forth with management over those items. Hopefully, they clean their crap up and do their job and give us a fair contract to vote on PRIOR to this whole industry going south.

 

[Other People]

http://www.investors.com/news/how-would-brexit-affect-american-delta-and-united/?ven=yahoo&src=AURLLED

So, it looks like American will take a big hit with the Brexit.

Meanwhile, we have put ourselves in a position where time may be running out on this window of opportunity. These jokers better get us the industry leading contract that was doable over the past 6 months, and I hope they don't continue D*ing around pounding their chest. If we get left out of industry leading wages, scope, profit sharing, health care then that will be total Bull S.

These guys better finish the job we are paying them to do.

Sorry fellas but the Weasle and his madness suggesting that we stay at the table and sweat even the small stuff, even when we are NOT in section 6 and the company doesn't even have to be negotiating with us, just isn't sound thinking. 3.5 years after the merger and our negotiation committee claims that it hasn't even discussed wages, health care, pension, scope. I don't know about Weasle, but by any fair standards, that is absolute Bull S that our Labor Organization hasn't even passed proposals back and forth with management over those items. Hopefully, they clean their crap up and do their job and give us a fair contract to vote on PRIOR to this whole industry going south.

excellent points Tim.
Neither me or anyone I know, buys what they are saying. Absolutely, they should have been passing proposals already regarding wages, scope and the things you mention. The process that they have chosen has excluded those items until the last rurn in negotiations.

I don't have as much information as you but I think I stay more knowledgeable than the average member, and I'm very concerned about how the global economy will react to brexit. I imagine that the price of oil will go down but the dollar may go up and make European travel more expensive. Cutting into projected revenues is never a good thing.

I was also disappointed with the latest update. Doesn't seem like any new ta and that they simply re-passed hours of service and overtime proposals back and forth. These are not section 6 talks but it seems as if our negotiation team has not taken that into consideration. Other unions on the property took advantage of the great negotiating environment and have already enjoyed new contracts for 1 or 2 years now. We need to wrap it up and realize that we won't have the time or method to get things that only come through section 6.

 

[Tim Nelson]

excellent points Tim.
Neither me or anyone I know, buys what they are saying. Absolutely, they should have been passing proposals already regarding wages, scope and the things you mention. The process that they have chosen has excluded those items until the last rurn in negotiations.

I don't have as much information as you but I think I stay more knowledgeable than the average member, and I'm very concerned about how the global economy will react to brexit. I imagine that the price of oil will go down but the dollar may go up and make European travel more expensive. Cutting into projected revenues is never a good thing.

I was also disappointed with the latest update. Doesn't seem like any new ta and that they simply re-passed hours of service and overtime proposals back and forth. These are not section 6 talks but it seems as if our negotiation team has not taken that into consideration. Other unions on the property took advantage of the great negotiating environment and have already enjoyed new contracts for 1 or 2 years now. We need to wrap it up and realize that we won't have the time or method to get things that only come through section 6.

Another person I will personally blame is the weasel if these morons fail to take advantage of the window and leave us in neutral with no way out. We are in fact losing $925 a month. Period. And these dopes STILL haven't passed proposals back and forth over the big items, by their own admission. If these dopes cost us money and we have to take $28 instead of $30 because they been D*ing around pounding their chest, then we should get rid of this retarded 2 Labor organization match.com thing.

Hey, maybe Parker will be really really nice and still give us the $30 even though his future revenue projections just took a hit and the stock is at a 52 week low. Seems as if things are getting worse, not better. How could the negotiating window get any better than it was over the past 12 months??? Fix it! Do your damn jobs and start negotiating the things that matter. Stop the insanity.

 

[Other People]

Another person I will personally blame is the weasel if these morons fail to take advantage of the window and leave us in neutral with no way out. We are in fact losing $925 a month. Period. And these dopes STILL haven't passed proposals back and forth over the big items, by their own admission. If these dopes cost us money and we have to take $28 instead of $30 because they been D*ing around pounding their chest, then we should get rid of this retarded 2 Labor organization match.com thing.

Hey, maybe Parker will be really really nice and still give us the $30 even though his future revenue projections just took a hit and the stock is at a 52 week low. Seems as if things are getting worse, not better. How could the negotiating window get any better than it was over the past 12 months??? Fix it! Do your damn jobs and start negotiating the things that matter. Stop the insanity.

Not sure how you can blame WeAAsles unless you are saying that he gives them a false sense of security that the membership doesn't mind waiting around. Your other points are noted. As I said, there is no good reason why they have delayed exchanging proposals on the meat and potato matters. What good are the appetizers and desserts if the main course hasn't even been ordered or received?

If our wages have to be compromised now and we get considerably less than our 3 comparables in Delta, United, and Southwest, then that will be very upsetting.

 

[WeAAsles]

Another person I will personally blame is the weasel if these morons fail to take advantage of the window and leave us in neutral with no way out. We are in fact losing $925 a month. Period. And these dopes STILL haven't passed proposals back and forth over the big items, by their own admission. If these dopes cost us money and we have to take $28 instead of $30 because they been D*ing around pounding their chest, then we should get rid of this retarded 2 Labor organization match.com thing.

Hey, maybe Parker will be really really nice and still give us the $30 even though his future revenue projections just took a hit and the stock is at a 52 week low. Seems as if things are getting worse, not better. How could the negotiating window get any better than it was over the past 12 months??? Fix it! Do your damn jobs and start negotiating the things that matter. Stop the insanity.

This is ALL your fault Laundry man. You know very well that those guys always do the exact opposite of what you want them to do. You kept pushing and pushing to get them to hurry up and all you did you fool was make them even more resilient. 

I warned you that this would happen. Now look what you've done!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDBCiZKZi_g

 

[Other People]

This is ALL your fault Laundry man. You know very well that those guys always do the exact opposite of what you want them to do. You kept pushing and pushing to get them to hurry up and all you did you fool was make them even more resilient. 

I warned you that this would happen. Now look what you've done!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDBCiZKZi_g

I don't fault your opinion that has been consistent with delay, nor do I fault Tim's for wanting our negotiation committee to engage in expedited talks. If the negotiators are listening to either of you two ego driven members then we are in big trouble.

 

[Traymark]

I don't understand why the Ass just didn't hand over the Contract book from 2001 and say, this will do just fine, just add in DL+7 and we're good. See you in 3 years.

 

[700UW]

Then you have no clue about negotiations.

So tell the board how the company woukd just say ok?

The HP/US CBA took three years.

They have about half the the articles TAed in six months.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Then you have no clue about negotiations.

So tell the board how the company woukd just say ok?

The HP/US CBA took three years.

They have about half the the articles TAed in six months.

MORONS. All other union groups have enjoyed new TA's for over a year now, so should we. But our dopes admitted that they STILL haven't passed proposals back and forth over the meat and potatoes. That is absolute Bull Crap. Stop acting like these are section 6 talks, 700. Those talks you keep referring to were section 6. Why are our morons always behind the 8 ball? FIX IT! FIX IT NOW!

 

[Traymark]

It took the pilots 4 months, I'm going to go out on limb and say their work group is at least as complex as ours.
 
4 months, done.
 
It took the Flight Attendants 4 months.
 
4 months, done.
 
In 4 months , we had bulletin boards and uniforms.
 
Who's Zooming Who?!

 

[700UW]

Ah once again you leave out the facts that APA and the APFA had binding arbitration deadlines and the FAs lost every item they went to arbitration on and the CWA gave concessions.

Guess your not a Paul Harvey fan.

 

[Traymark]

Ah once again you leave out the facts that APA and the APFA had binding arbitration deadlines and the FAs every item they went to arbitration on and the CWA gave concessions.

Guess your not a Paul Harvey fan.

 
 
 
You make it sound like we won't give Anything?
There Will be concessions in our deals too, and you and W will be here to rationalize all of them for us.

 

[Traymark]

What does binding arbitration have to do with anything?
 
The fact is, 
 
IT TOOK 4 MONTHS, Period.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Let me make this clear again to you.

My choices.

To be given ALL the money and chose how I want to invest it.
To be given the opportunity to join the IAMPF AND keep my current company match
To get the same deal as UAL got IAMPF and 3% match
To have a choice between a 401k match or participation in the IAMPF

IN THAT ORDER.

The choice I do NOT want.

NO CHOICE.

 

 
Weez, you do amaze me. You actually think that the association was founded on the fundamental principals of freedom and Democracy? This pension thing is really my only sticking point. What you are a campaigning for "the right to choose" comes with a cost. Have you ever sat down to consider the true cost of what you want, against the long term effects to others, just to satisfy your misguided sense of entitlement? Let me remind you, I have no love for the association. The opinions, suggestions, comments or complaints expressed here, in this forum have as much chance of effecting change as Trump dropping out of the race for President.
I do feel the IAM will make some attempt to snare the members of the TWU to prop-up their pension business. Even the mere mention if it in the eventual TA will draw an "NO" vote from me. After reading all of the IAM publication on the subject, I can boil it down to this.
 
You want to join the IAMPF, you will have to relocate to a IAM city, like CLT. Your LAA 401K contributions would stop, and forwarded to the IAM 401K, but if your lucky you might be able to role over the to the IAM 401K. But sorry, if your LAA 401K is all from pretax earnings, then a hefty tax would be in effect and evaporate a good portion of that.
And now fro the nuts and bolts for your yearly pension benefit.
I will start with the numbers.
TWU dues at $40/month
IAM dues at $80/month
TWU 401K match %5.5
IAM 401k match %3.0
TWU/IAM wages $29.27
TWU wages less union dues and adding %5.5 401K match.= $63,750.10
IAM wages less union dues and adding %3.0 401K match.= $61,748.00
 
A difference of $2,002.10
 
The variance would equate to, after ten years, a monthly withdraw of $251.35/month after the age of 62 and would last to age 75. And it's the returns that make it go this far. Or $251.35/month for 13 years.
 
On the other hand, the IAM pension has a benefit of $6229.20/year for 5 years at $519.10/month, or $259.55/month for 10 years.
 
Yep the choice is your if ya get it.
I think you should be fighting for a better 401K match, %8 sounds good,

 

[700UW]

Are you truly that ignorant?

The APA and APFA were bound to go to binding arbitration if they didn't reach an agreement on a JCBA.

The APFA had to go to binding arbitration on several items and they lost.

The. CWA took 10 months and gave concessions.