JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[AANOTOK]

I don't understand yours and Weaasles idea that it has to take a long time to get a good contract. I think the company was ready to go, the unions weren't. When the association finally got their sh!t together they did something to piss off the company and now we wait. 

Yes, they told them NO CONCESSIONS. Do you honestly think AA involuntarily let it slip when they mentioned they wanted Cargo and Catering early on in negotiations (during uniform talks). That was obviously before SCOPE discussions and our negotiators told them to go pound sand. To me, that feeler AA threw out there got a response that has them rethinking and as you stated slowed down the process. Not to mention other things they wanted that thankfully our negotiators are refusing to budge on.
I really think AA thought the $$$ would drive negotiations and it hasn't.

 

[AANOTOK]

I do think it is IMPERATIVE that the Association hold it's ground no matter how long it takes. This contract is not only important now, but  for many contracts going forward. Unions have got to regain a hold if they are to have any revelance in the future

 

[700UW]

Basic Seniority has already been agreed to and has been for a long time, premium seniority is the issue, more for maintenance than for fleet.
 
http://dl141.com/docs/SLIAgreement.pdf

 

[AANOTOK]

Basic Seniority has already been agreed to and has been for a long time, premium seniority is the issue, more for maintenance than for fleet.
 
http://dl141.com/docs/SLIAgreement.pdf

C'mon 700, that is worthless. That can be changed, ripped up anytime before a vote. You know, kinda like the agreement that we would get to vote on the Association was discarded.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Basic Seniority has already been agreed to and has been for a long time, premium seniority is the issue, more for maintenance than for fleet.
 
http://dl141.com/docs/SLIAgreement.pdf

That agreement was just like anything else in the last agreement, it can be changed. So Sito already hosed all LUS ramp to cut the deal with the TWU? Many former Piedmont won't ever get their true DOH now, neither will former USAir prior to 1979. Thanks 700 and Sito.

 

[WeAAsles]

That's where you keep throwing me off W on your stance. First you say past negotiations were done under stress and that's not the case today, meaning NO concessions. Then you turn around and say the above. Giving up cabin IN EXCHANGE FOR is a CONCESSION. Why not if the tools and thought of giving Freight and Mail jobs back are even a possibility, can they not be given without GIVING something. Again, it was a CONCESSION when they took it under distress negotiations, no need to give a concession to get it back.

When did I ever say no concessions? I've never said that because it's an oxymoron. Any changes that come when we agree to a new CBA if there are changes to one group over the other could be considered a concession.

Just because some items in a JCBA may contain changes that we'll have to adjust to, doesn't equate to me necessarily as concessions. But too many on these pages are oversimplifying the total picture.

 

[700UW]

That agreement was just like anything else in the last agreement, it can be changed. So Sito already hosed all LUS ramp to cut the deal with the TWU? Many former Piedmont won't ever get their true DOH now, neither will former USAir prior to 1979. Thanks 700 and Sito.

Seniority between US and PI was settled years ago, it wont change.
 
Just like the former TWers wont be getting their TW seniority.
 
So blame who you want, your posts show your ignorance and true colors.
 
So make up more lies and misinformation, I once again, had NOTHING to do with your bridge agreement when Fleet unionized in 1995, and have NOTHING to do with the current agreement nor your negotiations, keep up the lies and you wonder why you cant get elected, its called credibility, something which you severely lack.

 

[AANOTOK]

I'm speechless W and will just say many better be thankful you were not elected...WOW!
And yes dude, that was me that gave you a RED. If I could have given you more, I would have!

 

[Worldport]

Yes, they told them NO CONCESSIONS. Do you honestly think AA involuntarily let it slip when they mentioned they wanted Cargo and Catering early on in negotiations (during uniform talks). That was obviously before SCOPE discussions and our negotiators told them to go pound sand. To me, that feeler AA threw out there got a response that has them rethinking and as you stated slowed down the process. Not to mention other things they wanted that thankfully our negotiators are refusing to budge on.
I really think AA thought the $$$ would drive negotiations and it hasn't.

IF the company mentioned concessions I'm sure its part of a negotiation strategy  not a drop dead ultimatum I feel they got all they really needed in bankruptcy like Tim says how could we logically give up something that survived 2 bankruptcies 

 

[AANOTOK]

Well, according W, if you guys have to give up Catering so we can get mail back, you will just have to adjust.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes I do, I will never be able to learn how on earth you could take that dopey United deal, as you already said you would vote for it, when all you have to do is look at your own station, MIA, and try to figure out why you see workers from all other airlines, ramp and ticket counter, but don't see any United rampers or United ticket agents in such a large intl airport. That's the difference between me and you. You want the money and little else. You will rationalize any TA that comes down. Trust me, I know you. You already rationalized the dopey United deal and the goofy Spirit deal. I know you all too well.

Write this down Tim. I said if I was a UAL Ramper I would have jumped on it. I'm NOT a UAL Ramper though and neither are you.

UAL gained a marketable improvement over what they had.

Write this down ok.

They had horrible Station protection. In comparison we have terrific Station protection.

They had and still have no PT caps. We have PT caps in both of our contracts.

Would I vote to give those items up for almost ANY pay increase? I'd really like to know what you've been smoking man? I think it might be laced with something so you need to be more careful. Of course not. No. I would NOT vote for those items at AA. If I was UAL I would have JUMPED on those improvements, absolutely YES.

 

[WeAAsles]

Applying a lot of the language in the UAL CBA to yours would mean winding up with a concessionary contract.

You and Tim seem to come from the same mindset?

I DO NOT want the UAL CBA.

I DO want the wages and retirement package. Or 3% above their wages and my current 5.5% match (At the very least)

I DO NOT want what you have. You really don't have a ton of Stations with 40% Ready Reserve. Your Station Staffing is an allusion. A shell game. Phony. Not real. So for me not interested.

We have 2 levels for wages that are guaranteed to go up.

You have 3 levels and 1 of those levels offers ZERO guarantees. So you can keep all the Stations that Delta has staffed and gain 40 more for all I care. I still say my pie is larger than yours with that.

 

[WeAAsles]

if it was arbitrated, as NYer informed us, then they won't be able to go back and rewrite the TWA seniority.

Ever try actually "reading" things that have been out there for quite awhile now or do you just enjoy making things up as you go along?

Seems kind of tiring how you approach things.

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't understand yours and Weaasles idea that it has to take a long time to get a good contract. I think the company was ready to go, the unions weren't. When the association finally got their sh!t together they did something to piss off the company and now we wait.

When did I ever say that it needs to take a long time to get a contract?

It seems like a lot of things are being associated to me today that I never said.

 

[WeAAsles]

Basic Seniority has already been agreed to and has been for a long time, premium seniority is the issue, more for maintenance than for fleet.
 
http://dl141.com/docs/SLIAgreement.pdf

I'm not really sure why you posted this? People either don't read it or forget about it after a few weeks anyway. And Tim absolutely doesn't read these things. He just likes to wing it.