JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Kev3188]

Wrong about the GEO pay. You're just deflecting the conversation. Attaching GEO pay makes it unfair again under your assessment. Under your metric there already is equal pay then, it's called the minimum wage law.
A house in DFW cost $100,000
A house in Brooklyn cost $600,000
Which clerk in which area is going to be able to buy a house and which one isn't?

Which house can the guy at Envoy or AirServ buy?

 

[Kev3188]

Let's cut the crap W.
 
A concession in the big picture.
Outsourcing ANY work we currently have.
Taking away ANY sick days (hrs) we currently have.
Taking away ANY holidays we currently have.
Cutting our hourly rate we are currently paid.
Allowing unlimited PT would be a concession.
Cutting our Vacation down would be a concession.
 
And I know I'm missing a few, but you get the idea W so stop trying to make it fit your argument
so you can claim you're right (as usual).
 
We all know there will be some adjust that need to be made on both sides when combining
the two contracts. And yes, some may not be happy that LUS contract verbiage was used instead
of LAA, or vice versa.
 
You know damn well W, the bottom line is a concession is giving something back to the company
that you currently have, not combining contracts and saying, I'M GETTING SCREWED!

Agreed, but I think all of us need to start recognizing where that downward pressure is coming from, and what we can do to stop push back against it.

The threat of losing something encoding (example only), or flight thresholds are simply symptoms of a much larger problem.

 

[NYer]

I find it very hard to believe you're advocating for unequal pay for equal work...

He takes it a step further and supports geographic pay, which means he supports workers at the same airline earn different wages depending on the area's cost of living. So union members in cities like NY would earn more than workers in DFW, CLT or TUL. Actually, those cities would actually have to take a pay cut since the wages are dependent on their cost of living.

Imagine having Members in NY earning $30 an hour and Members in other cities earning $20 or $25 an hour.

 

[WeAAsles]

Which house can the guy at Envoy or AirServ buy?

As long as there is always a steady stream of people willing to take those jobs at the rates offered, just like roaches you'll never get rid of them.

And in some ways Tim is right. You organize them and all they do is fold up the business and revamp under a different name with a new influx of people desperate to work no matter what the pay is.

The only real solution is continuing on with the fight for Airport minimums. Get that accomplished and maybe it will no longer be cost effective for the Airlines to outsource and lose quality control?

 

[Kev3188]

Airport minimums are a good start, but are a band aid solution in this context; you shrink the wage gap, but room for people to undercut each other-and for companies to whipsaw workgroups-is still there.

 

[WeAAsles]

He takes it a step further and supports geographic pay, which means he supports workers at the same airline earn different wages depending on the area's cost of living. So union members in cities like NY would earn more than workers in DFW, CLT or TUL. Actually, those cities would actually have to take a pay cut since the wages are dependent on their cost of living.
Imagine having Members in NY earning $30 an hour and Members in other cities earning $20 or $25 an hour.

Having lived in both low COL areas and high COL areas you're damn right I support geographic pay.

NYer right? Do you still live and work in NYC? If not what made you move? Were you essentially forced to move to gain a more financially comfortable way of life?

Granted NYC is the greatest city in the World and people should pay a premium for that but when a guy in JFK has to make 77k to be able to have the same comforts as I do in Miami on 50k, I think something is just a little out of whack?

I did vote for Bernie who's a Socialist but you Sir sound more like a Communist if you're disagreeing with the premise I'm bringing up here.

Or maybe you're just another of the many selfish individuals I come across daily?

 

[WeAAsles]

Airport minimums are a good start, but are a band aid solution in this context; you shrink the wage gap, but room for people to undercut each other-and for companies to whipsaw workgroups-is still there.

So offer up you're solution that we know for a fact can and will be successful? And if you have one then how come we are not there yet?

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's cut the crap W.
 
A concession in the big picture.
Outsourcing ANY work we currently have.
Taking away ANY sick days (hrs) we currently have.
Taking away ANY holidays we currently have.
Cutting our hourly rate we are currently paid.
Allowing unlimited PT would be a concession.
Cutting our Vacation down would be a concession.
 
And I know I'm missing a few, but you get the idea W so stop trying to make it fit your argument
so you can claim you're right (as usual).
 
We all know there will be some adjust that need to be made on both sides when combining
the two contracts. And yes, some may not be happy that LUS contract verbiage was used instead
of LAA, or vice versa.
 
You know damn well W, the bottom line is a concession is giving something back to the company
that you currently have, not combining contracts and saying, I'M GETTING SCREWED!

Ok I won't argue with you anymore. You win.

 

[Kev3188]

So offer up you're solution that we know for a fact can and will be successful? And if you have one then how come we are not there yet?

I already did. You can also review post #1519 in this thread for context.

The first step is for working class America to realize that we're not a drag on the system; it's us that generates the revenue.

We're not there yet because undoing a generation of messaging takes time. We /won't/ get there by continuing to buy into the idea that we're "just lucky to have jobs," or by accepting concessionary proposals (or work conditions) in an era of unprecedented industry prosperity.

 

[WeAAsles]

I already did. The first step is for working class America to realize that we're not a drag on the system; it's us that generates the revenue.
We're not there yet because undoing a generation of messaging takes time. We /won't/ get there by continuing to buy into the idea that we're "just lucky to have jobs," or by accepting concessionary proposals (or work conditions) in an era of unprecedented industry prosperity.

Now you're only talking about the insulated bubble of working for a Major North American airline. How do you solve the dilemma of wealth inequality that leads to the destruction of our wages and benefits if the company can't get the price needed to support your demands?

 

[700UW]

UA and PI had GEO. at high cost living areas and it was contractual.

 

[AANOTOK]

A little off topic, then again, does have to do with generating revenue.
 
Son (D3) needs to be in LA Oct 9th. Went to a search engine and bought one way (DFW-LAX) on American non-stop for $35.10.
That is the total price, and it is cheaper than Spirit or being a non-rev. Revenue generating???

 

[bob@las-AA]

I too will add to that off topic;
 
D side has not food, have to go to A side to get anything good.

 

[WeAAsles]

UA and PI had GEO. at high cost living areas and it was contractual.

It doesn't really matter anyway since unfortunately I believe the notion of it was already shot down unofficially?

 

[WeAAsles]

I too will add to that off topic;
 
D side has not food, have to go to A side to get anything good.

Treat yourself Bob. Go eat at the Teigan Irish restaurant. I recommend the Bangers and Mash personally.