JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

It absolutely is a system setup for the greedy.

Actually had a conversation once with a guy who when we were talking about medical that told me I should pay more to subsidize him because I don't have a family and he does and I could afford to pay more. Since we're talking about greed this is the same way the "equalization" people think.

 

[NYer]

BS. It's greed plain and simple. If you max out in a month so what. Maybe something happens to me next month where I really need it?

I haven't signed up for OT in 5 years. Do you really think I'm going to pull out a hat trick now just because I have zero hours? (As I should because I worked ZERO hours)

 
There are Members that need to work the OT and others that don't. If you have 100 people on a shift and 10 guys work OT on a regular basis they will collect hours. The other 90 will not. If those 90 decide to work OT then the guys that work regular OT won't be able to get it and it can affect their lives. But wait, someone like yourself, doesn't work a lick of OT and at some point reaches a need and starts to work OT and accumulate equalization hours. Very, very soon after starting to work those hours, you'll find yourself well ahead most that still carry a 0.
 
At that point, you're in need but you worked a few days and carry an equalization number. Now someone else finds themselves in a need and they block you out because they're at 0. Now you're shut out.
 
Equalization is a mechanism that allows those that need the OT a reasonable chance to get it as compared to others in that group of 100.
 
Unionism is about the whole, not the individual that boasts at their ability to live on a lot less than others that may have legitimate obligations and could use a boost.

 

[Kev3188]

That's a pretty broad brush you got there, WeAAsles...

 

[WeAAsles]

CB.

I hope your side fights like the dickins to end the OT equalization tyranny that we in the TWU have been subjected to for our entire careers. Please come and free us slaves who are held prisoner by our Roman overlords.

 

[Tim Nelson]

CB.
 
We know the 8 double time on the 2nd DO is sexy, but there are other issues that should receive a bit of a priority over the double time.
 
--For instance, in the TWU the OT is distributed to the entire "work unit," which is considered the entire ramp. On the US side, I believe, the OT is assigned via the "duty assignment," which could be divided to several areas within the ramp. If there is an area that received a higher percentage of the OT, there could be a whole segments of Members that would not be eligible for the OT.
 
--Then the US side has separate lists for the Ramp guys and the Leads (Crew Chief). On the TWU side, we have one list but if there is a Lead (CC) needed, they can skip those not qualified to reach the Member with the proper qualifications.
 
--The TWU equalization lists goes to 0 at every bid.
 
--We also should prioritize eliminating the US language which allows at PT to get extended to cover a PT opening or positions. On the TWU side, the FT OT goes before the PT extensions.
 
Just a few points of the top of my head, I'm sure there are more complicated issues to go over. If the Members realized the complexity of this process, then we believe the frustrations felt would not be so heightened.

Interesting.
As far as lus duty assignment, they go off the same list for the entire ramp (including ramp, bagroom, etc). Have separate list for pt, ft, leads, (and prolly catering in hubs.)

 

[NYer]

But wait a minute AANOTOK he NEEDS it more than you. Who the hell makes the determination of who's needs are greater than someone else? Maybe the OT hog needs a boat or an expensive young girlfriend?

 
Of course, everyone that works OT is hog. Nice thought process of a self proclaimed union man

 

[WeAAsles]

There are Members that need to work the OT and others that don't. If you have 100 people on a shift and 10 guys work OT on a regular basis they will collect hours. The other 90 will not. If those 90 decide to work OT then the guys that work regular OT won't be able to get it and it can affect their lives. But wait, someone like yourself, doesn't work a lick of OT and at some point reaches a need and starts to work OT and accumulate equalization hours. Very, very soon after starting to work those hours, you'll find yourself well ahead most that still carry a 0.
 
At that point, you're in need but you worked a few days and carry an equalization number. Now someone else finds themselves in a need and they block you out because they're at 0. Now you're shut out.
 
Equalization is a mechanism that allows those that need the OT a reasonable chance to get it as compared to others in that group of 100.
 
Unionism is about the whole, not the individual that boasts at their ability to live on a lot less than others that may have legitimate obligations and could use a boost.

Who are you to decide the needs of anyone? Are your needs more important than mine? No they are not and neither is anyone else. And my needs are also not more important than yours.

And if someone "needs" to work OT all the time well then maybe they made the wrong choices in their life if that's the way you want to look at things. And if someone else made the wrong choices in their lives "I" should be the one to pay for that?

Uh uh buddy. You make your own way in this world.

 

[WeAAsles]

Of course, everyone that works OT is hog. Nice thought process of a self proclaimed union man

Nice try at your attempt to pull at my heartstrings. No. The people who agree with the travesty of equalization are hogs.

 

[NYer]

Who are you to decide the needs of anyone? Are your needs more important than mine? No they are not and neither is anyone else. And my needs are also not more important than yours.

And if someone "needs" to work OT all the time well then maybe they made the wrong choices in their life if that's the way you want to look at things. And if someone else made the wrong choices in their lives "I" should be the one to pay for that?

Uh uh buddy. You make your own way in this world.

 
Duly noted.
 
If someone has a problem, it is their problem.

 

[WeAAsles]

Duly noted.
 
If someone has a problem, it is their problem.

So under your scenario a guy gets in over his head (yes with family obligations) he buys a house and car that are really too expensive for him to afford. And he prefers that his wife doesn't work and stays home to be June Cleaver.

You're basically saying that I should step aside and let him have my OT because he made his choice? Maybe I shouldn't sign up for the rest of my career because I "chose" not to have the same things (priorities) as him?

Well tell you what. Here's my priority. When we get our JCBA I'm buying a 2016 Yellow Mustang Convertible (My priority or problem) and I just might want to start working OT to make those payments a little lighter?

What do you think? Should I leave those hours alone because YOU might again have different priorities?

 

[charlie Brown]

CB.
 
We know the 8 double time on the 2nd DO is sexy, but there are other issues that should receive a bit of a priority over the double time.
 
--For instance, in the TWU the OT is distributed to the entire "work unit," which is considered the entire ramp. On the US side, I believe, the OT is assigned via the "duty assignment," which could be divided to several areas within the ramp. If there is an area that received a higher percentage of the OT, there could be a whole segments of Members that would not be eligible for the OT.
 
--Then the US side has separate lists for the Ramp guys and the Leads (Crew Chief). On the TWU side, we have one list but if there is a Lead (CC) needed, they can skip those not qualified to reach the Member with the proper qualifications.
 
--The TWU equalization lists goes to 0 at every bid.
 
--We also should prioritize eliminating the US language which allows at PT to get extended to cover a PT opening or positions. On the TWU side, the FT OT goes before the PT extensions.
 
Just a few points of the top of my head, I'm sure there are more complicated issues to go over. If the Members realized the complexity of this process, then we believe the frustrations felt would not be so heightened.

You have mainly hit on the issues different between the two unions. If I had to take a guess right now. I would say you will see some type of combination of the above. It will also be interesting to see the companies proposal and just how they address these issues that you just listed. But yes. You are correct with the above scenario differences between the two.

 

[charlie Brown]

Interesting.
As far as lus duty assignment, they go off the same list for the entire ramp (including ramp, bagroom, etc). Have separate list for pt, ft, leads, (and prolly catering in hubs.)

Yes you are correct. Separate list for catering. There would also be separate list for say Intl where they have a separate duty assignment in some stations. And lav + water ( Phl ) . All these would be a different list.

 

[AANOTOK]

I would argue that OT was never set up for it to be someones lifeline or to be worked every day. As a matter of fact I would say it it was intended to be a lost time replacement or make an extra buck benefit.

 

[charlie Brown]

I would argue that OT was never set up for it to be someones lifeline or to be worked every day. As a matter of fact I would say it it was intended to be a lost time replacement or make an extra buck benefit.

Haha. I would agree with you. And then along came bankruptcy. Many people came to count on overtime.

 

[WeAAsles]

I would argue that OT was never set up for it to be someones lifeline or to be worked every day. As a matter of fact I would say it it was intended to be a lost time replacement or make an extra buck benefit.

Absolutely.

And in a few months we may be going up by almost 6 or 7 Dollars an hour for TOS if we secure the UAL plus 3%

If that's not enough for a guy to get out of his hole and not ever get back in one, then I'm done. I'm not going to have any sympathy for that guy.

You won't get any argument from me.