JetBlue,TV & AA

[JBLU007]

Aloha TWAnr,

"Even assuming that the projected average of flying time for a flight attendant is the same as a pilot's, their annual salary is barely $21,000; not exactly a living wage in the New York metropolitan area."

The average JBLU F/A starting pay is close to $30,000 when you add in profit sharing, matching 401k, and other benis. That is close to what a TWA F/A with 10 years was making in NY. JBLU F/As dont have silly Union rules that prevent them from flying efficiently and making money for themselves and their company. The average duty day is over 6hrs flight time. At AA its closer to 4.5. The only FAA rule for F/A's is 24 hour break in a 7 day period and that can be on a lay over. The fact that you add growth, a JBLU F/A is only on reserve for a few months, and profitability it isnt too bad.

Just look at what an AA F/A new hire would make in NYC, its a lot less, but thats a mute point AA wont have any new hires for years to come.

ALOHA, 007

 

[JBLU007]

[blockquote]
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On 1/6/2003 336 PM TWAnr wrote:


[BLOCKQUOTE]----------------
On 1/6/2003 5:48:23 AM KCFlyer wrote:

TWAnr - does the JetBlue website happen to list the number of FA's who actually LIVE in the NYC area?
----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]The web site only has the following information:
[STRONG]
"Willing to relocate to within one hour driving distance from the assigned crew base. We have recently announced Ft. Lauderdale, Florida (FLL) as a new city base in addition to our existing New York City (JFK) base."[/STRONG]

It would appear, based on the above, that the vast majority of the flight attendants are based in New York City (JFK) and are required to live no more than an hour's drive from that airport.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Aloha TWAnr,

TWA had the same rules, though it was 2hrs. How many JFK based TWA F/As lived in NY? Its the same at JBLU.

ALOHA, 007

 

[TWAnr]

[FONT color=#0000ff]Hello 007,[BR][BR]Am I to understand, based upon your new handle, that you are now working for JetBlue? Did they make you give up your recall rights to AA?[BR][BR]Just a couple of other comments:[BR][BR]Before being concerned with profit sharing and 401k plans, people have to earn enough money to provide for food and shelter for themselves and their families. I really don't see how it can be done on JetBlue's published wages for flight attendants. The $30,000 a year figure which you cited would mean flying more than 106 hours each month. Even at that high - but probably not common - flying rate of six hours per day, that means working and being away from home for over 18 days each and every month; while not an impossible figure, it means no life outside the airplane. For most people, that is an unacceptable quality of life issue.[BR][BR]Your below the belt attack on MK is quite uncalled for. Had you flown even one month for AA, you would have known that traders have no access whatsoever to open time. The only function that traders can fulfil is to facilitate mutual trades. Most, if not all, of those are for everyone to see on the HiBoard. Using a trader is a convenience that some are willing to pay for, but it is not a prerequisite to making trades.[BR][BR]By the way, is your wife still with UAL? Are you still consuming caviar and Dom Perignon in United's First Class?[BR][BR]It is nice to see that some things never change.[/FONT]

 

[kirkpatrick]

[blockquote]
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On 1/8/2003 12:33:07 PM JBLU007 wrote:

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[blockquote]
Aloha kirkpatrick,
[/blockquote]

T-Bone! Is it really you?

[blockquote]

As for assurances at JBLU, you can be assured that they will be hiring new F/As for years to come. That you will be off reserve in just months. That your company is making money in the worst of times.
[/blockquote]

For your sake, I hope so. I recall the same euphoria when Air Florida and People Express started off so successfully. I don't wish death on any new carrier, even those which might threaten me. I only hope you're able to get past the childhood diseases and reach maturity.
[blockquote]
AA, UAL, DAL, U and others have become the dinosours of an industry and some will become extinct.
[/blockquote]
I'll admit the industry is changing. In fact, I'll admit that I've seen nothing but change in my almost 31 years of flying. But don't write off the old dinos just yet. I've got a feeling I'll be pouring Pepsi's for quite some time to come.

[blockquote]
PS. How does it feel to make money from fellow TWA F/As to trade when it was free at TWA? Dont you see that you become part of the problem by supporting this extortion. The work rules will never change as long as you, AA, and other traders are making money at it. Would you now support the trading rules at TWA for AA even though it would put you out of business?
[/blockquote]

Trading is just as free at AA as it was at TWA. Even at TWA we had traders. It's more common at AA because the system is more complex. Is my tax man an extortionist because the tax code is more complex than it should be? Is he an opportunist? I don't know. I have taken the time and effort to learn the system and share my knowledge for a nominal fee. Most of my customers are happy with my service; a few are not. They are free to take their business elsewhere or learn to do it for themselves.

Speaking of moral fiber, how did you feel when you hired on in 1986 for the purpose of breaking the strike? Yes, I know, the strike ended while you were in training and you never crossed an active picket line. But I'll always remember that the intent was there.

MK

 

[TWAnr]

[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT face=Arial color=#3333ff]MK,[/FONT][/P]
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[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT face=Arial color=#3333ff]Touché.[/FONT][/P]
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[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][o][FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3] [/FONT][/o][/P]

 

[Bob Owens]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/8/2003 12:33:07 PM JBLU007 wrote:

"As for assurances at JBLU, you can be assured that they will be hiring new F/As for years to come.That you will be off reserve in just months. That your company is making money in the worst of times. That they will share the profits, match your 401k, allow you to work as much as you want and give you a piece of the company. The opportunities to advance as far as you like are huge. They have a management team that is one of the best in the industry. At least they know how to make money flying. They have the flying product the passengers want a great seat at a great price. AA, UAL, DAL, U and others have become the dinosours of an industry and some will become extinct. The others will take years to evolve into what they need to be to become profitable. They really havent change since 1978. By then JBLU will have close to 300 planes all making money."

It's too bad that we did not have the internet twenty years ago. If we did we would have seen this debate with enthusiastic employees from "Peoples Express" saying exactly what the JET Blue employees are saying now. They too were owners of a "New type of airline that was going to drive all the dinosaurs to extinction". Sure some of the dinosaurs may not make it through this downturn, neither will most of the start ups, those low pay, employee owned, "we love you so you will work for less", carriers that go head to head with the majors will meet the same fate as Peoples, Air Florida, Laker etc. As thier experienced employess leave to go to carriers that pay better thier reliability goes down the toilet and costs go up. It costs a lot more to have an airplane sit on the ground than it does to pay mechanics who can fix it a good wage. Mechanics dont get to $50 per hour so they tend to be a little more cynical and restless than some other workers. You rarely see that "Rah Rah" mentality towards the company with them. So while you may be happily dishing out your meals at whatever you are making the mechanics enthusism will wane in proportion to how much thier salary lags thier counterparts at the majors. Right now your planes are reletively new, and you have a singular fleet type. This works to your advantage, however they are Airbusses and Airbusses are crap, disposable aircraft. As they start to break, require overhaul, and your maintenanvce costs go up, and your experienced mechanics leave for greener pastures, and the majors go head to head on your routes JetBlue will become JetRed.

 

[Diesel8]

Hey Bobby,

Why don't you go ask NWA, UAL and AWA about what they think of the bus. They seem to like it. Of course, you may be trying to start the old Boeing versus Airbus rhetoric.

As far as the rest of your post, time will tell, just do not hold your breath to long. You might turn jetBlue!

 

[Diesel8]

Happy for ya

 

[Hopeful]

Diesel8: Idon't know what department you work in, but as an aircraft mechanic with many years experience, I can say that structurally and mechanically, Boeing makes a superior product over the bus. I have worked at overhaul bases on both types of equipment, and there are noticeable differences in how they are constructed. Now as a line mechanic, I can tell you Boeing is still a superior product.

 

[Hopeful]

And I'm sad for you Diesel. The fact being that JetBlue bought the A320 because it was less expensive than the B737. Happy TV watching!

 

[Diesel8]

Hopeful,

I was not being a smartypants, just have no desire to start the B versus A debate. Know it ad naseum!

 

[Hopeful]

Just a little "who-cares fact" about this topic, 2517 views to date, and 117 replies, cool!

 

[Busdrvr]

"JBLU F/As dont have silly Union rules that prevent them from flying efficiently and making money for themselves and their company. The average duty day is over 6hrs flight time. At AA its closer to 4.5. The only FAA rule for F/A's is 24 hour break in a 7 day period and that can be on a lay over."

I thought F/A's were there for my safety. Hope you never have to run an evac on the return leg of a JFK-LGB turn.

 

[Hopeful]

Well, the Happy for YA remark seemed awful sarcastic. But I was making an experienced opinion on the differences. Not that I'm saying Airbus makes the equivalent of a YUGO, but there are differences. So, I'll end this topic.

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
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On 1/9/2003 9:05:21 AM Hopeful wrote:

Diesel8: Idon't know what department you work in, but as an aircraft mechanic with many years experience, I can say that structurally and mechanically, Boeing makes a superior product over the bus. I have worked at overhaul bases on both types of equipment, and there are noticeable differences in how they are constructed. Now as a line mechanic, I can tell you Boeing is still a superior product.
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[/blockquote]


http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

Accident rates for all A/C models.