June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Beancounter]

You can take that to the shitter as well.

Don't forget to print it out on really soft paper first.

Bean

 

[EastUS1]

.....and I really didn't want to pay for a type to get a job.

Bean

Understood and agreed. Plus...SWA didn't look like the best deal on campus long ago anyway...nor did the top freight spots. Who knew? Oh well...We could all, as part of the good old "Human Condition", beat ourselves senseless about choices made years ago. Me?...I try to limit such to not having magically known last week's Lotto numbers in advance...which puts things back into reasonable perspective quickly 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Don't forget to print it out on really soft paper first.

Bean

Sound wisdom sir 😉

 

[Phoenix]

Ah!...the standard adolescent fantasy yet again = All people, must needs be as entirely infantile, self obsessed, opportunistic, and of course, as completely clueless as to the value of others, (or really anything in life), as yourself. Therefore; only an FO could possibly contend against the nic. Most amusing indeed, 😉 ....and how very sad for such as yourself....

Ha! You are sooo busted.. an FO pretending to be a Capt.. everyone knows that the real Capts on here are the ones who favor anything for a pay raise so they can afford to go to Alaska to contemplate the beauty of moose droppings, and contribute same to the web via WiFi, with a Mai Tai on the table, and snow mittens on the paws.

 

[Move2CLT]

Ah!...the standard adolescent fantasy yet again = All people, must needs be as entirely infantile, self obsessed, opportunistic, and of course, as completely clueless as to the value of others, (or really anything in life), as yourself. Therefore; only an FO could possibly contend against the nic. Most amusing indeed, 😉 ....and how very sad for such as yourself....

Ya, that's it.

Yawn.

 

[Beancounter]

Understood and agreed. Plus...SWA didn't look like the best deal on campus long ago anyway...nor did the top freight spots. Who knew? Oh well...We could all, as part of the good old "Human Condition", beat ourselves senseless about choices made years ago. Me?...I try to limit such to not having magically known last week's Lotto numbers in advance...which puts things back into reasonable perspective quickly 😉

Agreed. When I was in flight school a lot of guys dreamed about Northwest and United. I was at a commuter where the head of training had been furloughed by Northwest something like three times. The last time, the poor guy hadn't even made it through requal and he was shown the door again. Northwest was his absolute dream job. He finally said enough is enough, think he's at UPS now.

Bean

 

[EastUS1]

..... everyone knows that the real Capts on here are the ones who favor anything for a pay raise......

Dang It! Why do I never get the memos needed just to stay current here? 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Northwest was his absolute dream job. He finally said enough is enough, think he's at UPS now.

Indeed Bean...at least he ended up nicely on his feet then....and I can well remember when even UPS was considered to be "tough luck"...Again; Who knew?....

 

[Hawkhunter]

His impressive MAJOR job was a commuter flying from PIT to Champagne IL to Peoria and back.

Only needed commuter standards to get hired there, or maybe a relative with an in to HR. That is why most of these guys have a little trouble with reading comprehension....not too smart.

Wrong again piss ant. Are you a graduate from Mesa School of scabs? When you POS scabbed did you log that time in a different log book? Keep throwing darts maybe someday you will hit the target. LMFAO

 

[Hawkhunter]

You must have confused with a USCABIAN. APA asked a handful of us for assistance.

Now go back to playing with yourself.

So that was you! I dont need to, your wife takes care of that for me. LMFAO

 

[Phoenix]

Indeed Bean...at least he ended up nicely on his feet then....and I can well remember when even UPS was considered to be "tough luck"...Again; Who knew?....

I am not sure that anything makes up for the uniforms they have to wear!?

 

[EastUS1]

I am not sure that anything makes up for the uniforms they have to wear!?

There's that brown thing...but, looking like morticians with barely striped sleeves and horrible, plastic ties ain't nuthin' to write home about either 😉

 

[cleardirect]

Gentlemen

I know you east guys have the mantra that “your” attrition is valuable and it is going to be huge. Have any of you looked at the actual numbers or just listened to the crew room propaganda?

Oh I know you all are going to be captains or moving to that WB as soon as that attrition kicks in.

Looking at the retirements it says between 2012 and 2016 the next 5 years you should have 976 east pilots leave the seniority list. But according to the over 60 list usapa put out there are only 638 holding positions. Right off the bat 34.6% of your “attrition” means nothing because it does not open a slot.

Of those 638 over 60, 155 are F/O’s, 25% of the retirements stand alone are F/O’s. The Nicolau is not keeping anyone from upgrading it was your career and the airline you worked for. Oh I know the argument. But those are wide body positions. Have you counted them? Of the 638 retirements 38 from the 767 and 46 from the 330 are f/o’s. So you guys are delaying a contract and fighting arbitration for the last 5 years because you want 84 wide body F/O position that pay $98 and $109 respectively. With a new contract you could have had that for the NB.

What is it that you guys have been waiting around for the last 20 years? Here is your rocket ship of attrition.
Broken down by fleet:
E190 19 (2 F/O)
737 83
AB 265
767 140 (102 captain, 38 F/O)
330 133 (87 captain, 46 F/O)

The junior 767 F/O is seniority number 3094 out of 3446. So just how desirable are those WB F/O slots if it goes down to 89.7% of the list. As we stand almost everyone has a chance to bid the WB if you want. So all this talk about the attrition moving east F/O to the WB really we are talking about the bottom 350 guys that can’t bid it yet.

Total of 38 WB captain slot per year for the next 5 years. 17 WB F/O slots per year for the next 5 years.
Total of 59 NB (including 190) captain slots per year for the next 5 years, 16 NB F/O position per year for the next 5 years.

I hope it was worth it. The delay that you east guys demanded, giving away somewhere between $50,000.00 and $100,000. Most of you could bid the 767 right now if you wanted to but obviously you don’t since it went so junior. Unless you are within 300 numbers of upgrade you will not get that captain seat even stand alone for the next 5 years. Willing to put off a contract for another 5 years? Think Parker will let it go that long? What do you think is going to happen in an AA merger? Are you going to demand a share of the AA attrition, WB and upgrades or tell them you only want what you brought to the merger?

Once again the east overplayed a weak hand trying to put way more value on what you have than what it is really worth.

 

[Phoenix]

There's that brown thing...but, looking like morticians with barely striped sleeves and horrible, plastic ties ain't nuthin' to write home about either 😉

Yes, we are way overdressed for the respect we get. But at least we can always count on a large group of our brothers to tell us how unimportant and nonexistent the attrition really is.. the same attrition that they spend millions to get. And they think they know who the idiots are.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Gentlemen

I know you east guys have the mantra that “your” attrition is valuable and it is going to be huge. Have any of you looked at the actual numbers or just listened to the crew room propaganda?

Oh I know you all are going to be captains or moving to that WB as soon as that attrition kicks in.

Looking at the retirements it says between 2012 and 2016 the next 5 years you should have 976 east pilots leave the seniority list. But according to the over 60 list usapa put out there are only 638 holding positions. Right off the bat 34.6% of your “attrition” means nothing because it does not open a slot.

Of those 638 over 60, 155 are F/O’s, 25% of the retirements stand alone are F/O’s. The Nicolau is not keeping anyone from upgrading it was your career and the airline you worked for. Oh I know the argument. But those are wide body positions. Have you counted them? Of the 638 retirements 38 from the 767 and 46 from the 330 are f/o’s. So you guys are delaying a contract and fighting arbitration for the last 5 years because you want 84 wide body F/O position that pay $98 and $109 respectively. With a new contract you could have had that for the NB.

What is it that you guys have been waiting around for the last 20 years? Here is your rocket ship of attrition.
Broken down by fleet:
E190 19 (2 F/O)
737 83
AB 265
767 140 (102 captain, 38 F/O)
330 133 (87 captain, 46 F/O)

The junior 767 F/O is seniority number 3094 out of 3446. So just how desirable are those WB F/O slots if it goes down to 89.7% of the list. As we stand almost everyone has a chance to bid the WB if you want. So all this talk about the attrition moving east F/O to the WB really we are talking about the bottom 350 guys that can’t bid it yet.

Total of 38 WB captain slot per year for the next 5 years. 17 WB F/O slots per year for the next 5 years.
Total of 59 NB (including 190) captain slots per year for the next 5 years, 16 NB F/O position per year for the next 5 years.

I hope it was worth it. The delay that you east guys demanded, giving away somewhere between $50,000.00 and $100,000. Most of you could bid the 767 right now if you wanted to but obviously you don’t since it went so junior. Unless you are within 300 numbers of upgrade you will not get that captain seat even stand alone for the next 5 years. Willing to put off a contract for another 5 years? Think Parker will let it go that long? What do you think is going to happen in an AA merger? Are you going to demand a share of the AA attrition, WB and upgrades or tell them you only want what you brought to the merger?

Once again the east overplayed a weak hand trying to put way more value on what you have than what it is really worth.

And in 8 years its 1600+ retired.

But since you feel that the numbers are not worth it, I am sure you will have no problem agreeing for east to keep their retirements and west to keep theirs. East retires east gets the seat, west retires west gets the seat. That way we can all get the new contract and a raise.

After all the retirements mean nothing right?