US Pilots Labor Discussion 3/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[end_of_alpa]

My point is that you claimed to be below a 5 year west guy - 19 years. Now you're saying a 14 year difference. Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you so easily exaggerate the facts? Where I come from that's called lying. So, you refuse to jerk gear for a guy like me? See ya! Don't need your arrogance in my cockpit anyway. You're competing on the open market? I'll remember to return your greeting at Wal Mart.

Fortunately I believe that most east pilots are not represented by your type, which is why I challenge the CBA to put Kirby to a vote. I, personally would not vote for it but would like to see the VNIIMN crowd put their money where their mouths are.

Fortunately I WON'T be flying with YOU! AS far as putting out the Kirby PROPOSAL...repeat PROPOSAL...unions NEVER put PROPOSALS out for a vote. Geeesh, where do you guys come up with these fantasies???

When I GO SHOPPING IN WALMART, I'll look for you. Which blue vest will you be wearing??

Most EAST pilots DO agree with me. They don't "jerk" the gear for you, either.

1987 to 2001...14 years. I'm here 23 years. My cover is blown. Math calculations HURT. Want another good math calculation...here's a really funny one:

"After two years, Management has alleged that they had made yet another mistake, this time in calculating our training pay. And they want it back, right now. If they cannot make a profit from running the operation they figure they can get it from the employees. Someone from the 9th floor has decided that, along with everything else they have taken from us, they are going to collect about $2200 in overpayments from ALL PHX Captains and about $1500 from ALL PHX F/O’s."

Hope you're laughing now???

 

[end_of_alpa]

You're kidding me....right??? You want US to support YOU??? Remember, all the lambasting and jabs us EAST guys have been getting from the Company and WEST pilots???

We'll looky here:

"Stealing from our paychecks and violating the minimum block hours in the Transition Agreement should lead us all to the same conclusion: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

When Management asks for favors and wants us to do others’ jobs, we need to collectively say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

When Management asks you to waive contractual provisions for their benefit, we need to collectively say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

When Management ignores the low morale of our pilot group and demands greater performance, we need to collectively say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

The hot weather is returning to Phoenix, sooner than later. When Management asks you to compromise safety or passenger comfort under the guise of schedule efficiency, we need to collectively say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

When that gate agent comes down demanding that you close 10 minutes early, do not let them push you out of the green. On time is for the Company and the passengers, but safety and having the entire crew in the green is for everyone. We need to say collectively that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Someone in Management decided that pulling into the gate and popping a cargo door with an engine running is a safe operation. That is a management decision, but to stop the pilots from getting paid after shoving a $2.20 per hour pay cut at us even though we are still responsible for the aircraft is borderline criminal. We need to say collectively ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Stay in the green, exercise your Captain’s authority, stay safe and keep in mind the $3700 that the Company wants back from each crew because of the Company’s alleged “mistake”.

In solidarity,

First Officer David Braid

First Officer Mark Doyal

The FIRST salvo from the company. I expect that if the EAST wins LOA 93 grievance the "Kirby" P-R-O-P-O-S-A-L will be off the table because they can't afford to pay the proposal in the future. We get a pay raise.

See you on the flight line.

 

[end_of_alpa]

USAPA is unable to do any better than Kirby. They've had 2 years. Their behavior makes them unworthy of wasting the company's time. It all comes down to the man at the top, the one who set the tone for the union and establishes it's credibility. Let me spell it out for you: C-L-E-A-R-Y.

So all the chest thumpers in CLT/DCA who support Cleary and validate his salt-the-earth rapport with management are the folks who make us rely on the generosity of said management to achieve any gains.

Sounds like a complete waste of money supporting such an organization.

We, the pilots, we...NOT USAPA...WE, the pilots (people) are unable to do any better than the Kirby PROPOSAL!!!

Keep blowing smoke, blame it on CLEARY!! Oh wait, blame it on USAPA!! Oh, wait, blame it on....looked in the mirror lately???

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I, will be writing them a check ASAP because I am holding up the negotiating process for all the rest of the poor groups here at AWE and think it would be downright selfish to keep "THEIR" money. "HONEY can you get my checkbook please? What do you mean ? You want more than $10 allowance a month and weve benn married over 25years I'm calling my USAPA rep! MM!

 

[pilot]

Yes it is, you're just too mentally challenged to know it.

I'll explain it to you, no company - no paycheck.

Like I said, you don't get it.

No company - no paycheck. Thanks for the enlightenment Einstein.

So What?

They got our pay, retirement, work rules, vacation, reserve system, 300 rj's, etc..... and the morons still cannot make money with the lowest paid pilots in the industry. Yeah, we're mentally challenged alright. Look in the mirror for mentally challenged.

Now the seniority is going too? For what? A paycheck? You think its our job to help this POS survive? Managers at Burger King and Tuffy muffler make more than most of our pilots. Do the research skippy.

Someday you'll figure it out too once you realize you can do something other than fly an airplane for incompetent management.

No company - No paycheck....... Let me reiterate: So What?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Like I said, you don't get it.

No company - no paycheck. Thanks for the enlightenment Einstein.

So What?

They got our pay, retirement, work rules, vacation, reserve system, 300 rj's, etc..... and the morons still cannot make money with the lowest paid pilots in the industry. Yeah, we're mentally challenged alright. Look in the mirror for mentally challenged.

Now the seniority is going too? For what? A paycheck? You think its our job to help this POS survive? Managers at Burger King and Tuffy muffler make more than most of our pilots. Do the research skippy.

Someday you'll figure it out too once you realize you can do something other than fly an airplane for incompetent management.
I like it , " YOUR ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" well stated my brethren would take a paycut for their NIC than get improvements and naturally have a place to go in 5 years, as it is our man DP is going to split it up ( cause he can with no joint contract, that risk thing,) And we will sit here and blame our man CLEARY!
No company - No paycheck....... Let me reiterate: So What?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

PILOT, you get it! MM

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

You're kidding me....right??? You want US to support YOU??? Remember, all the lambasting and jabs us EAST guys have been getting from the Company and WEST pilots???

We'll looky here:


The FIRST salvo from the company. I expect that if the EAST wins LOA 93 grievance the "Kirby" P-R-O-P-O-S-A-L will be off the table because they can't afford to pay the proposal in the future. We get a pay raise.

See you on the flight line.

E-O-A-

It's called duty of fair representation.

You seem to have real issues with this. You 'professionals' told the world you could do the cheaper, faster and more professionally than the previous CBA.

You're showing your true colors again. You and the boys been down to the river in the van again??

If nothing else that's money the union (I have to laugh when I say that) will have to refund to the west, you always seem to be so happy to brag about getting us fired for not paying.

I hope it's easier to create a correct refund, the billing side was a disaster!!!

 

[luvn737s]

Nope E-O-A, USAPA will have to fight this one for the west or face yet another DFR.

And Fly Now Grieve Later is the law of the land, so the west will abide by it. And if the grievance doesn't go our way, the west will abide by that and move on as adults. In other words, we will show you how it's done. Without the drama.

Finally, if damages are imposed on USAPA, the pilot group will be assessed (members as well as non-members) and the west will trade a small check for a much larger one. The east pilots will either pay their assessment or get a love letter from the treasurer Robya' Streble. Don't "pay a nickle" -> Sec.29 -> lose your job.

But as has been said here before -

"No paycheck....... Let me reiterate: So What?'

"So what?" Sounds like USAPA's new motto.

 

[Metroyet]

We, the pilots, we...NOT USAPA...WE, the pilots (people) are unable to do any better than the Kirby PROPOSAL!!!

Keep blowing smoke, blame it on CLEARY!! Oh wait, blame it on USAPA!! Oh, wait, blame it on....looked in the mirror lately???

Wow. Amazing. Funny how NOW, with USAPA the individual pilots carry some responsibility for their decisions. However, when ALPA was around NOBODY was responsible for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING was ALPA nationals fault.

Why the change of heart? Don't like how your ALPA merger committee handled the Nic. negotiations...Look in the Mirror.

 

[Ames]

Your West pilot PHX domicile leaders disagree with you about the Kirby proposal. A quote from the West pilots PHX domicile update of April 3rd.

The company wants back what you were overpaid in training.

"After two years, Management has alleged that they had made yet another mistake, this time in calculating our training pay. And they want it back, right now. If they cannot make a profit from running the operation they figure they can get it from the employees. Someone from the 9th floor has decided that, along with everything else they have taken from us, they are going to collect about $2200 in overpayments from ALL PHX Captains and about $1500 from ALL PHX F/O’s".

"If we look at this from an overall perspective and for ease of calculation, we normally get paid 1000 hours of credit per year. So to repay the Company’s alleged mistake, without negotiations mind you, they want to hand us a $2.20 per hour pay cut. In the Kirby proposal they were only offering a paltry and unacceptable 3% raise or $4.35 per hour. I don’t know about the rest of the pilots on this property, but a net swing decrease of $6.55 an hour is completely unacceptable. "

Do you still want the Kirby proposal put out to a vote?

Yes. Again, for the reasons I stated. Again, I say that personally I would vote against Kirby but would like to offer the VNIIMN crowd to prove themselves.

 

[Ames]

Put what exactly out to a vote. There ain't nothing to vote on. That's all I'm sayin'.
When there is a CREDIBLE offer I'm sure there will be a vote.
Is Kirby credible. Definitely not. Not even close. Not even in the same universe.
SOOOOOOO Far away, you can't even see it. Looks like a teensy tiny pinprick from here.
Oh, did I mention it was CONCESSIONARY?
That means, boys and girls, that you actually lose money and working conditions and lifestyle things, instead of getting more.
More is better, no?
When a contract proposal is offered that has MORE in it instead of LESS, it is a good thing.
When a contract proposal is offered with LESS in it, it is a BAD thing.
Kirby = LESS = BAD = NO VOTE
Ya gotta spell it out for the kids, they just don't get it.
Next!

A reasonable discussion is well beyond this childish reply.....

 

[Ames]

Fortunately I WON'T be flying with YOU! AS far as putting out the Kirby PROPOSAL...repeat PROPOSAL...unions NEVER put PROPOSALS out for a vote. Geeesh, where do you guys come up with these fantasies???

When I GO SHOPPING IN WALMART, I'll look for you. Which blue vest will you be wearing??

Most EAST pilots DO agree with me. They don't "jerk" the gear for you, either.

1987 to 2001...14 years. I'm here 23 years. My cover is blown. Math calculations HURT. Want another good math calculation...here's a really funny one:



Hope you're laughing now???

I never was laughing. Simply shaking my head.....

 

[Ames]

Like I said, you don't get it.

No company - no paycheck. Thanks for the enlightenment Einstein.

So What?

They got our pay, retirement, work rules, vacation, reserve system, 300 rj's, etc..... and the morons still cannot make money with the lowest paid pilots in the industry. Yeah, we're mentally challenged alright. Look in the mirror for mentally challenged.

Now the seniority is going too? For what? A paycheck? You think its our job to help this POS survive? Managers at Burger King and Tuffy muffler make more than most of our pilots. Do the research skippy.

Someday you'll figure it out too once you realize you can do something other than fly an airplane for incompetent management.

No company - No paycheck....... Let me reiterate: So What?

Then why are YOU here. "Einstein".

 

[nic4us]

A quote from the West pilots PHX domicile update of April 3rd. The companies version of a pay scale to placate the West pilots. The following is their idea of placating you.

The company wants back what you were overpaid in training.

"After two years, Management has alleged that they had made yet another mistake, this time in calculating our training pay. And they want it back, right now. If they cannot make a profit from running the operation they figure they can get it from the employees. Someone from the 9th floor has decided that, along with everything else they have taken from us, they are going to collect about $2200 in overpayments from ALL PHX Captains and about $1500 from ALL PHX F/O’s".

There are so many holes in this company attempt at regaining past pay errors, which may or may not even exist, that this will probably go away once the higher ups get wind of all the circumstances.

First, West pilots training pay is governed by an loa that expired 12-31-07, due to the failure of reaching a joint contract by that time. Short story, if the company persues this, West pilots will no longer have to do distance learning, and the company will have to reopen the school house to provide for 3 days of recurrent, and 3 sim events per year and AQP goes away as well, since the West will not have to participate in that either. We go back to our contractual training, and get paid the same amount that the company now claims is an overpayment. Ouch!!!! not only do we not owe them the money, they will have to rehire training staff to meet our contract, and redo the entire curriculum for the West's training back to the 2004 methodology.

Second, the company has a past practice precedent of not seeking repayment of pay errors for east pilots who were overpaid when returning from furlough. To now treat West pilots differently opens a whole can of worms as to when and how pay errors are properly corrected, and why east pilots are treated differently than West pilots.

Third, if it is in any way shown or even percieved, that this is retaliation for the West winning the loa-10 grievence, all bets are off as to how the West will respond.