June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

How in the world anyone can think the Nic is status quo must have been asleep (or drunk) for the past 5 years. Or, simply stupid.

Indeed. The most elementary litmus test would reasonbly seem to be; can anyone bid with it? Has anyone ever been able to do so?/etc

 

[Claxon]

That's got to be the most inane stances since Baghdad Bob.

The Nic is "status quo?" Really, the east just had a bid for September and a lot of east F/O's will be captains with that bid. And not ONE of the west Nic F/O's (who are Nic senior) have been awarded any of those captain bids. In fact, the bidding was not even open to them.

How in the world anyone can think the Nic is status quo must have been asleep (or drunk) for the past 5 years. Or, simply stupid.

There are numerous eastern upgrades. More and more. The junior western like clear direct, Nic4us etc. have torpedoed the senior western out of the 330. There is unrest in the crew videos. The lawyers are alarmed, and see the merger coming before the joint contract. It takes a joint CBA to make it happen, there isn't even a decent offer, no proposal other than the AA one. The Nic is most assuredly a goner. The American pilots could care less about the western plan to put younger pilots ahead of theirs. They want what is good for them, which is DOH. It clears the eastern division out quickest with the most movement upwards. Cleardirect vainly tries to convince himself otherwise. No, it is best to have younger western pilots farther down the list, absolutely.

 

[EastUS1]

I know.

Even more unbelievable.... 😉

 

[Keroseneuser]

Watched the Hatfield & Mccoy miniseries this week........

We have the whole cast of characters here, Anse Hatfield, Randall MCCoy, Cotton "Mushhead" Hatfield etc etc, even have crazy old Uncle Jim.

This board has gone to a weird place. But the East/West/Mgmt. thing has gone to an even stranger place. All three are to blame for where we are now, All three are guilty of causing this. There will be no winner when history looks back at this disaster of a merger.

The turn of the century airline feud is quickly rolling towards its second decade!

 

[EastUS1]

I know. Ya'd think Luv would slip up and get a fact in once or twice, but somehow he doesn't. Pure BS from him...
you taught him well...

Jim

No reason for further adressing the issue of "Pure BS" for you, since that's been previously covered in depth.

eolesen, on 03 June 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:
All this talk about binding arbitration..... Binding isn't always binding.
Case and point: the Nicolau Award."

Points given per "...slip up and get a fact in once or twice..."
Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:55 PM BoeingBoy: "....The Nic award's status as final and binding remains in question."

 

[nic4us]

You left the boards immediately after Kasher handed you your ass in the last major failure you were convinced was certain victory...again. I guess revising history is somehow coded into the East DNA. Where is your industry standard USAPA contract btw? It's only 1,422 days PAST the promised delivery date...I wonder if something went wrong?

Also, did you know the company reversed the disciplinary action taken against the trumped up "identity thieves" and gave them full back pay? Huh. So I guess no one is going to jail?

You mean to tell me that instead of jail time they got a 6+ month paid vacation and made the scabs look like idiots?

Has there been any mention of this from usapa? I would have thought usapa would be trumpeting its great victory of getting east pilots a free token lifelock subscription.

 

[nic4us]

That's got to be the most inane stances since Baghdad Bob.

The Nic is "status quo?" Really, the east just had a bid for September and a lot of east F/O's will be captains with that bid. And not ONE of the west Nic F/O's (who are Nic senior) have been awarded any of those captain bids. In fact, the bidding was not even open to them.

How in the world anyone can think the Nic is status quo must have been asleep (or drunk) for the past 5 years. Or, simply stupid.

um.....Metro is getting the "status qou" thing from what Siegel (the company's hired gun) said in open court.


But, just for you I will explain exactly how the Nic is "status quo".

The same TA that calls for seperate ops until a joint contract, (seperate ops being what is enabling the east to steal jobs with the collusion of certain upper management decision makers), also calls for the NIc.

In other words, the contractual mechanism that allows usapa to force seperate ops, keep the east on LOA93, and abandon its DFR of bargaining for the group, is exactly the same contract that guarantees the Nic.

 

[Move2CLT]

Cleary did exactly what he was elected to do. Keep the Nic off the eastern property. And he did. Keep the western group on ice for years. He did. Now there is a merger on the horizon. And no joint contract. Exactly the worst possible scenario for the Nic. Cleary is a master. You should have known it was iced since 2005. Had it been able to be done, it would have. It can't. It is so simple even Nic4US should be able to understand.

Cleary made you love LOA93 and you now do with a passion. He's kept you in a bankruptcy contract, lost the snapbacks, and buried DOH.

Ya, Cleary did a fine job for you guys. And you even think he's a hero now.

LMAO.

 

[nic4us]

Cleary did exactly what he was elected to do. Keep the Nic off the eastern property. And he did. Keep the western group on ice for years. He did. Now there is a merger on the horizon. And no joint contract. Exactly the worst possible scenario for the Nic. Cleary is a master. You should have known it was iced since 2005. Had it been able to be done, it would have. It can't. It is so simple even Nic4US should be able to understand.

This ain't the first time there has been a "merger on the horizon".

The difference this time....Cleary and the scabs at usapa are not going to be part of any decision making.

Last time, Cleary was called to Tempe, and promptly ran off to the 9th asking for an emergency decision which was quickly denied.

This time, usapa is watching powerless to do a damn thing. Further, the east replaced Cleary in the last election because the majority over there is waking up to the harm they are being caused by a bunch run amok scabs constantly effin up every trumped up witch hunt that the rest of the sane world is also quickly tireing.

I know this goes right over your head....but not having a joint contract in place going into a merger is what is going to be the huge victory for the APA. usapa's options are still the same as they have always been....joint Nic contract, or seperate ops and LOA93/contract2004. All the scabs like Cleary have accomplished is to weaken the LCC pilots position in an integration. It will still be the Nic and the APA list, but the Nic will be pushed further down thanks to the scabs and their belief in a union busting opportunist lawyer.

One more thing. Since the merger is "on the horizon" and the scabs got us all under an injunction, joint Nic contract is not even a possibility until after the AMR deal falls though. So, where we sit now is either a merger takes place, (which will use the Nic and the APA list for seniority integration in which the LCC pilots are already handicapped thanks to the scab union), or we wait til the deal falls through, then start up contract talks with the company again, in which they will find yet another reason to tell the scabs to go pound sand.

 

[nic4us]

Cleary made you love LOA93 and you now do with a passion. He's kept you in a bankruptcy contract, lost the snapbacks, and buried DOH.

Ya, Cleary did a fine job for you guys. And you even think he's a hero now.

LMAO.

Jumbo Shrimp......Found Missing....Definite Maybe.....Original Copies.....Exact Estimate....


"Cleary Master"....?????

Now there is a Cloxymoron.

 

[cleardirect]

You're delusional. USAPA will exist until single carrier status is in place. USAPA cannot be taken out of the picture before an integration method is agreed upon due to McCaskill-Bond.

Are those straws you are grasping at giving you any relief from those delusions?

Wrong!

As soon as the merger is complete the APA will apply and receive single carrier status. We are less than 35% of the total craft and class so no vote required.

The APA will become our bargaining agent for the seniority integration.

You guys have been screaming that it will be a 3 way with 3 lists. Have you figured out how the west can be represented in that deal? If you have you have it figured out the east and west will be represented by APA. If you think the APA can't represent the east you have answered the question of why it will be a 2 way with 2 lists.

BTW we all have agreed to the integration method. M/B and arbitration, just like Nicolau. A neutral third party will decide, except this time whining and crying will not delay the result.

Beside what are you worried about you guys said that usapa represented the west fairly, worried that the APA will not represent the east fairly?

 

[700UW]

No reason for further adressing the issue of "Pure BS" for you, since that's been previously covered in depth.

eolesen, on 03 June 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:
All this talk about binding arbitration..... Binding isn't always binding.
Case and point: the Nicolau Award."

Points given per "...slip up and get a fact in once or twice..."
Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:55 PM BoeingBoy: "....The Nic award's status as final and binding remains in question."

Eolesen, is not a lawyer, not a judge and is a former member of AA management, what he says really has no bearing on the case, and once you see the judge rule, you will might finally realize binding is binding.

 

[Metroyet]

That's got to be the most inane stances since Baghdad Bob.

The Nic is "status quo?" Really, the east just had a bid for September and a lot of east F/O's will be captains with that bid. And not ONE of the west Nic F/O's (who are Nic senior) have been awarded any of those captain bids. In fact, the bidding was not even open to them.

How in the world anyone can think the Nic is status quo must have been asleep (or drunk) for the past 5 years. Or, simply stupid.

You really should learn exactly what "status quo" means in the context of the RLA. How many huge disappointments have you been set up for? Expect one more.

 

[nic4us]

You really should learn exactly what "status quo" means in the context of the RLA. How many huge disappointments have you been set up for? Expect one more.

don't hold your breath.

These are the same people who do not understand a unions DFR........what a hybrid DFR is....the concept of fidiciary duty...or why Seeham is a scab enabler.

 

[EastUS1]

Eolesen, is not a lawyer, not a judge....

Neither are you.