June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Don't you mean "us guys" ?

I think he means after USAPA disappears (IF there is a merger) the east won't be the majority running the show...

Jim

 

[Ames]

I've no argument with your thoughts there. Had this been resolved via people's LOS being properly respected...this mess wouldn't exist today, and none but the most infantile and self obsessed opportunists would be whining. Were a "do over" possible at this very moment; would you support such using LOS? I'm guessing not.

I supported LOS considerations when our merger committees were negotiating. Your merger committee was all in for DOH, thus not supporting any compromise whatsoever. I will never support a do over. Negotiations with your guys were a waste of time. We arbitrated because your side would not move. It's the fault of your side and your side only.

 

[nevergiveup]

I supported LOS considerations when our merger committees were negotiating. Your merger committee was all in for DOH, thus not supporting any compromise whatsoever. I will never support a do over. Negotiations with your guys were a waste of time. We arbitrated because your side would not move. It's the fault of your side and your side only.

It doesn't matter if the NIC was DOH. Couldn't get a contract. We still would be where we are.

 

[Ames]

.

LOS should be respected....period. I'm not the least bit concerned with "compromises such as LOS considerations"...How "noble" indeed...and "compromises" and "considerations" my arse. One either has it within themselves to respect the work and experience of others..or does not. Any that do not, and instead narcicisstically abide within their own little "It's ALL about MEEE!" world....I've ZERO use for as being even the poorest excuses for human beings. It's really that simple.

I place no blame on the average line pilot on either side, since none were involved with cooking up this atrocious scenario, nor had any direct input, much less any vote on it all.

I can understand west folks supporting the nic after the fact, since all input had been removed from the process by then, and line pilots...all are pretty much just around for the ride...but to ever even suggest it was at all, in any way, a "reasonable" outcome is preposterous. Had it truly been at all "reasonable"...we'd not be having this discussion, nor suffering the continued effects of the sad situation on either side.

Perhaps you don't understand the process. Merger policy dictated both sides negotiate. LOS considerations for furloughed pilots is a compromise, like it or not. Negotiating in good faith is not narcicistic, nor is it "all about MEEEEE!. Grow up. The west merger committee negotiated in good faith. Your fools pounded their fists on the table and chanted "DOH" I would say that you are lucky to have gotten the Nic.

 

[Ames]

You don't pay your dues based on choices. That's one of the most lame examples I have ever heard. If I was in your position I might have said the same thing. Best of luck in your choices though.

No, I guess you define paying your dues as clinging to a job at a failing company and enduring all of the resulting abuse. You suffered, I get it. You also chose to remain at a losing company in order to cling to your seniority number. It really is all about choices and I don't think that AWA pilots should suffer for your bad choices.

 

[Ames]

Ames has few choices left. He can leave and seek better employment elsewhere, or pay the price for remaining at LCC, which amounts to having to deal with a scab union intent on stealing his job.

In the current situation, I bet he chooses to stay, sees if a merger happens, and watches the poor decision makers pay the price and get kicked to the curb like last weeks trash.

You must know me because that's exactly what I am doing and I will certainly enjoy watching the poor decision makers pay the price.

 

[Ames]

Don't you mean "us guys" ? Since USAPA is the bargaining agent for East AND West, don't we all sink or swim together?

Driver...

Yeah, but the west is used to it. Will be an eye opener for your side.

 

[Ames]

It doesn't matter if the NIC was DOH. Couldn't get a contract. We still would be where we are.

Why would that be. If Nic was DOH the west would have sucked it up and moved on. East is the majority anyway. Why, again, would we not have a contract?

 

[Barrister]

I would like to know what you mean by that. I have paid my dues based on the choices that I have made. You see, despite the fact that I am an east coast native I chose not to work at US Air. As an investor I knew that airline would not last long. I also knew some US Air pilots at my ANG unit and was exposed to many more while flying in the commuters. Not people I would enjoy working with.

I chose to work at America Westbecause my wife wanted to live somewhere warm and I choose not to commute. I chose not to apply to Northwest, United or Continental for those same reasons. Delta turned me down and I chose the option of turning down Fedex because I don't like all night flying.

I chose the lower payscale at AWA for the lifestyle and the potential that was evident. As promised I made captain in seven years and enjoyed every day at work with some of the best people I have ever had the pleasure of working with. I accepted these conditions on the gamble that pay and benefits might someday improve but never counted on it.

I did not choose this merger and, as mentioned, never wanted to work for US Air. As far as the dues I have paid I believe the Nicolau list places me right where I should be even though I lost 3% relative seniority. The east's desire to cram a DOH list down our throats places formerly furloughed easties more than 700 numbers senior to me. Guys with less actual time on property than I had when this thing was announced. That's not right. Nicolau got it.

Therefore, I choose to fight the east to the very end. I have paid my dues based on the choices I have made. Have you?

This has to be the most pompous BULLSHIT post I have ever read here. You never know how you career will turn out. Remember this you pompous idiot. Over two thirds of the US Air list DID NOT originally work for US Air. The stupidity of some of you is sometimes hard to fathom.

PS..Did you see Parkers crew news in PHX where he says HIS OWN attorneys tell him it will most likely be a 3 way under Macaskill-Bond......very interesting!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Phoenix]

Perhaps you don't understand the process. Merger policy dictated both sides negotiate. LOS considerations for furloughed pilots is a compromise, like it or not. Negotiating in good faith is not narcicistic, nor is it "all about MEEEEE!. Grow up. The west merger committee negotiated in good faith. Your fools pounded their fists on the table and chanted "DOH" I would say that you are lucky to have gotten the Nic.

The perpetual need to ascribe blame against the East as justification for the Nic they "deserved" as some sort of retribution for "over-reaching"... Well it isn't much of an argument explaining how it is fair and equatable or how it avoids being a windfall. In fact it completely forgets about the parameters placed on Nicky.

 

[luvthe9]

Eolesen, is not a lawyer, not a judge and is a former member of AA management, what he says really has no bearing on the case, and once you see the judge rule, you will might finally realize binding is binding.

5 yrs and counting for that decision to "bind up" Must be some confusion here..........


9th Court of Appeals, SF
[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3


Seems the court that ruled differs from the opinion of the lav truck dude and the overreaching lawyering pilots of Leo.

 

[luvthe9]

The perpetual need to ascribe blame against the East as justification for the Nic they "deserved" as some sort of retribution for "over-reaching"... Well it isn't much of an argument explaining how it is fair and equatable or how it avoids being a windfall. In fact it completely forgets about the parameters placed on Nicky.

Nicky, ain't too sticky..... as in binding, for the West folks.

 

[Beancounter]

Now with all of this talk about a do over three way integration, I just have to ask, who is going to represent the west. If you get a do over, it can't be USAPA, talk about a conflict of interest. USAPA wasn't even the bargaining agent for the original AWA/US merger. Do you guys at all start to see, the problems you created by creating USAPA? Oh, and the response USAPA will represent you, isn't an answer, it's just an easties wet dream. C'mon guys, "Wake up!" I'm not saying the Nic was fair, but you guys have done everything you can to delay, BUT make darn sure it will be the list in the end.

Bean

 

[Beancounter]

even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

Yes, but don't you see that by pushing for DOH and blatantly failing to represent the west, USAPA is assuring the Nic will be the list. You may think that DOH is fair, but you're the only ones. By trying to grab the whole enchilada, you're going to end up with nada.

Bean

 

[HPearlyretiree]

This has to be the most pompous BULLSHIT post I have ever read here. You never know how you career will turn out. Remember this you pompous idiot. Over two thirds of the US Air list DID NOT originally work for US Air. The stupidity of some of you is sometimes hard to fathom.

PS..Did you see Parkers crew news in PHX where he says HIS OWN attorneys tell him it will most likely be a 3 way under Macaskill-Bond......very interesting!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Aside from your angry swear words....What part of "binding arbitration" do you not understand? The binding part, or the arbitration part?