June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

It's all water under the bridge now at any rate.

That's for sure and we will probably never know all the real motivations.

 

[Barrister]

Provide a name or employee number.

Hey sport you mean you don't have the NIC list on the wall in your own room next to the Star Wars poster. All of this loud talk and indignant posturing and you don't even have a NIC list to look at....pathetic.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Probably, but along the same lines as putting the entire east MEC into trusteeship and voting on a contract for us when the TA called for separate ratification, right? Funny how luvn didn't answer, and such a simple question.

Seham tried and tell the judge this BS crap during trial. There was a big fight over a video and Seham and usapa whined that you were going tot lose your vote.

Once the facts were looked at that was never the case. ALPA never said or even attempted to take your right to vote.

What ALPA threatened was to take the ability of the east leadership from further screwing around and ignoring their obligation but never the pilots vote.

 

[luvthe9]

Hey sport you mean you don't have the NIC list on the wall in your own room next to the Star Wars poster. All of this loud talk and indignant posturing and you don't even have a NIC list to look at....pathetic.

NICDOA
NPJB

Right next to the Easter Bunny clock and the Santa suit........

 

[luvthe9]

Seham tried and tell the judge this BS crap during trial. There was a big fight over a video and Seham and usapa whined that you were going tot lose your vote.

Once the facts were looked at that was never the case. ALPA never said or even attempted to take your right to vote.

What ALPA threatened was to take the ability of the east leadership from further screwing around and ignoring their obligation but never the pilots vote.

Prater had no clue we were about to launch ALPA. Johnny Mac launched his lawyer who told you boys the truth that is reality today. The Nic was merely a proposal to an internal union dispute. The Nic is done, years ago.

 

[cleardirect]

That's better.

First of all, you have to ask is USAPA corrupt? I would say no, because it is non-human and cannot have human traits. That said, I do believe there have been corrupt people involved in USAPA, just not to the level you do. You and some other westies(most?) see every single thing, by every single person as corrupt or with corrupt motives. I saw corruption in some of the people I dealt with over the C18, and there are many others involved with the union that I feel are not corrupt. I also dealt with a west guy over the C18 that I thought had corrupt motives and was playing me while I was trying to do the right thing. Thing is, every single group of people that I have been involved in has had at least one corrupt person involved, with a church group that really thought they were doing "what was best for the church" being the worst.

What I expect the APA to do, if we merge, is to keep doing what they have always done: look out after the AA pilots. Before we are AA pilots, I don't expect much. After we are AA pilots I would think that we would slowly have some influence. But with the APA, as with all groups I mentioned, I feel that there will be corrupt, self-serving, power hunger people that will want to be in postions of influence. That's life with humans.

So you agree with me that a non human entity can't have Human trails. Ok.

Because when I made the point that the Nicolau list is not human and can't be immoral there were many east pilots that argued with me. Would you mind setting them straight that the Nicolau list is not immoral? Many east pilots have said they are fighting a moral battle against a bad list.

When they call the list immoral they are really calling the guy that created it iimmoral. A decorated war veteran and week respected man. Do you agree with your east cohorts that Nicolau is an immoral man?

 

[cleardirect]

Hey sport don't follow your argument here....just looked at the NIC list,,something I haven't done in at least a year.
There are literally dozens of your guys with .1 and .3 years of service intermingled amongst our guys where is shows 17.0 LOS and 17 seniority...and they are not showed as furloughed.
Are we missing some subtle argument you are trying to make????

NICDOA
NPJB

I don't know what list you are looking at but the nicolau does not have DOH or LOS on it. The Nicolau award is simple a list put in seniority order by an arbitrator. The arbitrator and process you all agreed to.

Maybe you should go back and READ the Nicolau list again. After 5 years it might start to make sense to you now. Understand the logic of the well respected and experienced arbitrator. You guys are all about how much experience someone has correct. He has more experience doing what he does then most of you do flying airplanes.

 

[EastUS1]

Many east pilots have said they are fighting a moral battle against a bad list.

A decorated war veteran.......

1) Nope....it's a moral battle against a small clique of self obsessed opportunists.

2) Since when are such considerations anything at all to you? What's your personal "street cred" to even be mouthing off like that in the first place? That man lost a leg in combat flight operations. Did you heroically suffer a paper cut while in the "army" of leonidas? It somehow fails to surprise me that you would seek to "borrow" the proper respect earned by another for the attempted advancement of your pathetic agenda.....Typical.

Mr. Nic just screwed up here. All human beings make mistakes.

 

[Pi brat]

Seham tried and tell the judge this BS crap during trial. There was a big fight over a video and Seham and usapa whined that you were going tot lose your vote.

Once the facts were looked at that was never the case. ALPA never said or even attempted to take your right to vote.

What ALPA threatened was to take the ability of the east leadership from further screwing around and ignoring their obligation but never the pilots vote.

Tell luvn, his theory. What you say is what Prater told me on the phone, and I think he put it in writing, but a lot of guys didn't trust him or ALPA.

 

[Pi brat]

So you agree with me that a non human entity can't have Human trails. Ok.

Because when I made the point that the Nicolau list is not human and can't be immoral there were many east pilots that argued with me. Would you mind setting them straight that the Nicolau list is not immoral? Many east pilots have said they are fighting a moral battle against a bad list.

When they call the list immoral they are really calling the guy that created it iimmoral. A decorated war veteran and week respected man. Do you agree with your east cohorts that Nicolau is an immoral man?

I don't know that I have convinced too many people of too many things, certainly not on this board. I agree with you on this and I don't have enough information to know if Nicolau is a moral man or not. I don't see his award as making him immoral, it was just his judgement call. I don't think he got it right in a lot of areas, but it was his call and he made it. We have argued for 5 years now on the Nic awards pros and cons and still don't agree. We never will and it doesn't really matter. What matters is what we do with/about it. We haven't done too well with that one either, IMHO of course.

 

[cleardirect]

1) Nope....it's a moral battle against a small clique of self obsessed opportunists.

2) Since when are such considerations anything at all to you? What's your personal "street cred" to even be mouthing off like that in the first place? That man lost a leg in combat flight operations. Did you heroically suffer a paper cut while in the "army" of leonidas? It somehow fails to surprise me that you would seek to "borrow" the proper respect earned by another for the attempted advancement of your pathetic agenda.....Typical.

Mr. Nic just screwed up here. All human beings make mistakes.

You sir have a truly warped sense of reading. Maybe you are just to blinded by rage that you can not understand the written word.

I never claimed anything, I never attempted to "borrow" anything from Nicolau. I was pointing out his outstanding accomplishments. I am not the one that claims he made mistakes.

You are the one that is disrespecting mr. Nicolau. Could it be that you are embarrassed by your own actions that you are projecting these evil thoughts onto others? That if you are less than honest everyone else must be too.

 

[EastUS1]

Yes it does. I/we will forever be your problem.

You assume "I/we" to constitute a real problem? None out east have lost their seats to any out west. The nic's been thwarted for over five years and counting. No matter, as that's not the most amusing part here...which would the "forever" part. I mean...Wow!.."forever" huh? 😉

I suggest a moment's indulgence in proper perspective:

http://scaleofuniverse.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSnJl7B_TVs

 

[EastUS1]

I never attempted to "borrow" anything from Nicolau.

BS. Thanks for the typically amusing tap dance routine though 😉

"You are the one that is disrespecting mr. Nicolau." How so?...By properly acknowledging both his Service and humanity?
Keep up the Tap practice. There might one day be an opening for you in some Irish styled, traveling Troupe... 😉

 

[Zone5]

Really? Provide an employee number.

Ok, I just went back and got the exact numbers to crunch off the NIC. You sir, are correct! The West pilot just "senior" to me was hired on 8-16-2004, which is 9 months, 3 days after the merger was announced and 16 years, 5 months, 15 days after me, not 17 years.

Now that we have completed this exercise of "separating the fly sheet from the pepper", the fact of the matter is that this West pilot will be 65 in 2040, from an actuarial perspective, he will have been a wide-body Captain for years after I am dead, with or without the NIC. What's the rush?


seajay

 

[EastUS1]

Ok, I just went back and got the exact numbers to crunch off the NIC. You sir, are correct! The West pilot just "senior" to me was hired on 8-16-2004, which is 9 months, 3 days after the merger was announced and 16 years, 5 months, 15 days after me, not 17 years.

I'd just drawn the 15 year mark from being too lazy to want to again read that gloriously "fair and equitable" list in detail. I knew that point to be a safe assertion, and I couldn't have reasonably imagined any out west were truly so utterly clueless as to not honestly know....but...that could explain some of the zealotry amongst the most ignorant, I suppose.