Junior F/A''s say NO...to T/A

I have been a flight attendant with AA for 5 1/2 years but have been with this company for 16 years. I am voting NO on this. AA knew exactly what it was doing when they extorted this out of APFA, they have every intention of declaring BK but they want the blood to be on labors hands by voting this down.

They are driving a major wedge between Flight and Inflight.
With this TA you can not even plan on getting paid for what you are scheduled. I fly transcons out of BOS and frequently we are 45-60mins early, at the end of the month I am going to get paid 4-6 hours less than what was scheduled. I noticed that the pilots DO NOT have this in theirs, as AA knows that there would never be an early flight arrival. Crew meals I can live without but it does suck to have to cook cockpit crew meals while cabin crew don''t get any. Per Diem, is it cheaper for me to eat on a layover than a pilot? The previous complaints are not directed at the pilots but at AA''s way of dividing us.

Now, for management, they are not "feeling the pain" as we are. For anyone making 30K or less, which is what most F/A''s make, they are taking a 4% paycut, that means our cut is almost 400% more. There isn''t any mention for how long these cuts last, ours are going to be at least 6 years and more likely 8-9 years as we all know how timely AMR is when negotiating a contract. They keep 10 paid holidays and their vacation time is capped at 6 weeks and in my book which is the biggest slap in the face is they get severence pay while we get dick for furlough pay.

I am prepared to go down with the ship, I have been making preparations for this since Sept 2001. I have paid off my credit cards, got my mortgage way ahead, paid off my car and started working part time with the option of full time employment which looks like will be next month. I won''t quit as I want the furlough.

As I told my friends this morning, I don''t care how you vote, it''s none of my business but VOTE, that is the most important thing.

Mike-BOS
 
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On 4/2/2003 3:32:37 PM meechy36 wrote:

I have been a flight attendant with AA for 5 1/2 years but have been with this company for 16 years. I am voting NO on this. AA knew exactly what it was doing when they extorted this out of APFA, they have every intention of declaring BK but they want the blood to be on labors hands by voting this down.

They are driving a major wedge between Flight and Inflight.
With this TA you can not even plan on getting paid for what you are scheduled. I fly transcons out of BOS and frequently we are 45-60mins early, at the end of the month I am going to get paid 4-6 hours less than what was scheduled. I noticed that the pilots DO NOT have this in theirs, as AA knows that there would never be an early flight arrival. Crew meals I can live without but it does suck to have to cook cockpit crew meals while cabin crew don''t get any. Per Diem, is it cheaper for me to eat on a layover than a pilot? The previous complaints are not directed at the pilots but at AA''s way of dividing us.

Now, for management, they are not "feeling the pain" as we are. For anyone making 30K or less, which is what most F/A''s make, they are taking a 4% paycut, that means our cut is almost 400% more. There isn''t any mention for how long these cuts last, ours are going to be at least 6 years and more likely 8-9 years as we all know how timely AMR is when negotiating a contract. They keep 10 paid holidays and their vacation time is capped at 6 weeks and in my book which is the biggest slap in the face is they get severence pay while we get dick for furlough pay.

I am prepared to go down with the ship, I have been making preparations for this since Sept 2001. I have paid off my credit cards, got my mortgage way ahead, paid off my car and started working part time with the option of full time employment which looks like will be next month. I won''t quit as I want the furlough.

As I told my friends this morning, I don''t care how you vote, it''s none of my business but VOTE, that is the most important thing.

Mike-BOS

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Good idea Vote no that will show them. Here some of the things I can look forward to in BK. With 5 years I dont know that you will be around after they ground 100 more planes.(F100)But here''s a look at some of the additional cuts.

no more duty rigs (E time, etc..)
no more average day (minimum 4:45)
1 hour of pay for 4 hours away(F Time)
schedule reserve f/a''s before make-up
cap vacation at 5 weeks
eliminate duty aloft within 13/15 hours on duty and no time restrictions
eliminate availability
sick pay rate would be 4 hours per day missed or 3 on reserve instead of pay for the
trip missed (your 20 hour 3 day would be paid at 12 hours as an example)
expand f/a cabin cleaning (all but over night terminations)
purser and language pay at $1.75
allow non APFA Latin American f/a to fly out of DFW and JFK
retirement of up to 100 a/c resulting in 1000''s more furloughs

By the way if you are flying and you do get in early. You cant go below your monthly gaurantee. I am not sure why you are so envious of the pilots. But hey whatever works for you.

I am sure that we could have kept per-diem the same and taken a bigger hourly cut. would that be better. Would you prefer the 23% cut like the pilots are taking? Then keep per-diem and flight time schedule? Get real the little cuts are ways to off set the bigger hourly cut.
 
Mike, I am voting No. I don''t plan on being here one way or the other after next month. How long have you been with AMR? It can''t be long if you are buying this BS from Jane Allen and Carty. With this TA this is no longer a company I want to work for, but you can bet that I will be collecting my unemployment check from being furloughed and working UTT. I don''t have all my eggs in the AA basket so if they ground the F100''s, A300''s and all the 767''s tomorrow my life will still go on, hell if they file Chapter 7 it still will go on.

I think you are overly optomistic about how this will play out. As for what the pilots got, if you read my post I am not envious of them I said the way the TA''s were designed is to be devisive between the work groups. As for the TWA folks who think the union sold us down the river, Carty and Co. makes Ichan look like an angel. Carty had nothing to lose, he doesn''t care if this passes or not. My bet is he said take it or leave it, why do you think they already had that BK filing laying on the table? Do you consider that bargaining in good faith? I don''t.

Mike-BOS
Sen 16412
Furlough Fodder
 
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On 4/2/2003 4:58:07 PM meechy36 wrote:

Mike, I am voting No. I don''t plan on being here one way or the other after next month. How long have you been with AMR? It can''t be long if you are buying this BS from Jane Allen and Carty. With this TA this is no longer a company I want to work for, but you can bet that I will be collecting my unemployment check from being furloughed and working UTT. I don''t have all my eggs in the AA basket so if they ground the F100''s, A300''s and all the 767''s tomorrow my life will still go on, hell if they file Chapter 7 it still will go on.

I think you are overly optomistic about how this will play out. As for what the pilots got, if you read my post I am not envious of them I said the way the TA''s were designed is to be devisive between the work groups. As for the TWA folks who think the union sold us down the river, Carty and Co. makes Ichan look like an angel. Carty had nothing to lose, he doesn''t care if this passes or not. My bet is he said take it or leave it, why do you think they already had that BK filing laying on the table? Do you consider that bargaining in good faith? I don''t.

Mike-BOS
Sen 16412
Furlough Fodder

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I have been here for 17 years. Life will go on with or without AA. It will be something I will miss deeply. I dont know what Jane Allen or Don Carty are putting out. I haven''t the flight service web site since the announcement.

I think you will find disagreement from the TW people about Ichan as an angel. He lined his own pockets with the sales of assets of TWA. Loan sharked a ticket deal to them. Ichan really is a low ball scum artist.

Carty has much to lose in BK. He has a load of shares of AA. They will be worthless if we go that course. If you are leaving regardless, why make it difficult for those who are staying? BK means deeper pay and benefit cuts.

Yea Jeff Cambell was in NY waiting to file. AA had set a deadline to line up financing and one to achieve the cuts needed. Without these cuts AA will be unable to line up more money to borrow to lose. BK is the worst last ultimate choice. We have been given the chance to avoid it.
 
Not really, I think there is only 1 area where we disagree.

You are right, and we will never agree on that one, but that is life. All these people wanting to go to BK are just cutting of their nose to spite their face. Being a TWA inc. retiree, I stand to lose everything in the event of a BK, and I do not even get a vote.
Keep up the good work.
Carl
 
FA Mikey

"I think you will find disagreement from the TW people about Ichan as an angel. He lined his own pockets with the sales of assets of TWA. Loan sharked a ticket deal to them. Ichan really is a low ball scum artist."

I am starting to agree with you more and more. That is getting scary..ha
 
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On 4/2/2003 5:30:29 PM twaokc wrote:

FA Mikey

"I think you will find disagreement from the TW people about Ichan as an angel. He lined his own pockets with the sales of assets of TWA. Loan sharked a ticket deal to them. Ichan really is a low ball scum artist."

I am starting to agree with you more and more. That is getting scary..ha



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Not really, I think there is only 1 area where we disagree.
 
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On 4/2/2003 10:46:50 AM Flyboy4u wrote:
I can tell you that the junior people will do everything to turn down this T/A. We will take our chances in BK because it can''t get any worse than it is now.

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As a junior f/a at AA I can tell you from experience from going thru BK with another airline it can get a hell of alot worse. And if you think you can go out and find a job right now that you can make at least -15.6% of what your making today then quit and take it. I guarantee you that unemployment will not pay you that much. Before you start speaking for other members of the f/a ranks maybe you should go talk to someone at UA or US. I lost everything when Braniff went under, even my paycheck for work done the previous month. I figured (without the offical numbers) that it will probably cost me about $450.00 a month at my seniority. I don''t like it but I can live with it. Better than being without a job. I know this contract doesn''t guarantee us that the company wont go BK anyway but I need to feel like Im working towards a positive cash flow. I have given up trying to teach the company a lesson.
 
I hope no one has voted yet! No one has the offical numbers yet and who knows what can happen between now and April 15th. I suggest you wait, calm down and work with the numbers before anyone votes. What can you live with????
 
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On 4/2/2003 7:32:49 PM Mach85ER wrote:

Just a note,

As an AA pilot, please remember that the 23% paycut is the minimum for a lineholder who stays in his same seat on the same aircraft. 20% of the voting pilots are taking a 100% paycut (furlough), plus maybe 30% take a large hit for flying a smaller aircraft. In my case I am taking a 49% paycut from my 2001 W2 earnings. I will take nearly a 35% cut from my 2002 earnings, 23% plus a aircraft size reduction.

My guess? It goes down large.

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Lets hope not, but if it does we will get to see first hand how much worse it can be. How much more the pay benefits and work rule cuts will be.
 
There is wisdom in giving up the idea of "teaching the company a lesson." Whenever it comes to big decisions and you are angry, revengeful, hateful, disgusted, etc., you are likely to vote with those feelings. Not your more rational thinking mind, but thoughts linked and connected to those feelings noted above. Therefore, your decision is based upon your feeling state and not what you really believe is the best course of action for you and the outfit you work for. Of course APFA could have done better and so could Carty have made AA a more profitable airline. So now you can say "both of these parties can put this T/A where the sun does not shine" and vote "no f...ing way." I understand your feelings and agree with them. These are bad times and people are angry. But before you vote with your feelings think about what you want for yourself and AA. And think of your fellow employees too. Cast your vote when you are feeling calm and peaceful. Then it is more likely to reflect what YOU REALLY WANT! And instead of shooting yourself in the foot you can say "I did the right thing."
 
Just a note,

As an AA pilot, please remember that the 23% paycut is the minimum for a lineholder who stays in his same seat on the same aircraft. 20% of the voting pilots are taking a 100% paycut (furlough), plus maybe 30% take a large hit for flying a smaller aircraft. In my case I am taking a 49% paycut from my 2001 W2 earnings. I will take nearly a 35% cut from my 2002 earnings, 23% plus a aircraft size reduction.

My guess? It goes down large.
 
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On 4/2/2003 7:57:44 PM MiAAmi wrote:

I was leaning toward a no vote but after calming down and realizing it could get worse I think I am going to give them what they want. I won''t vote until 4/14. I want all the info I can get before I vote.

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I think thats great advice for us all.
 
I was leaning toward a no vote but after calming down and realizing it could get worse I think I am going to give them what they want. I won''t vote until 4/14. I want all the info I can get before I vote.
 
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On 4/2/2003 7:01:46 PM L1011Ret wrote:

And think of your fellow employees too.

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Bill,

They did. They got rid of furlough pay for their down and out coworkers in order to keep $25 dollars a month of their pay (before taxes).

I have never seen a more selfish group of individuals in my life.