TWAnr, yes not only does this T/A seem to target LLC F/As but from other posts nAAtive F/As are not very happy either. Personally I have been around airlines nearly forty years and this concessionary contract seems very unusual. The pilots appear to have done a much better job. I would criticize but before doing so I wish someone from APFA would provide rationale for giving up the greater of schedule or actual and some of the other concessions. And then I''d want to hear about vacation splits, passes for furloughees, and some other nearly no cost items that would appear to have been attainable. If I were a member of that organization I''d certainly lobby heavily for explanations from the leadership.
Junior F/A''s say NO...to T/A
- Thread starter twaokc
- Start date
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On 4/2/2003 9:30:34 PM L1011Ret wrote:
TWAnr, yes not only does this T/A seem to target LLC F/As but from other posts nAAtive F/As are not very happy either. Personally I have been around airlines nearly forty years and this concessionary contract seems very unusual. The pilots appear to have done a much better job. I would criticize but before doing so I wish someone from APFA would provide rationale for giving up the greater of schedule or actual and some of the other concessions. And then I''d want to hear about vacation splits, passes for furloughees, and some other nearly no cost items that would appear to have been attainable. If I were a member of that organization I''d certainly lobby heavily for explanations from the leadership.
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Its pretty obvious what the APFA did in order to secure their pensions and as much of a pay check as possible for themselves. They sold out the junior F/A''s. I would wager to bet that all those offiicers who voted to send these concessions to the F/A''s have 5 years or more with this company. All you have to do is look at the language of the concessions and ask where is the benefit for those being layed off? ITS GONE..... All furlough pay is gone...No passes....Gone..., not to mention, what little bit we had to secure no more furloughs in the way of benefits for those taking overage leaves..GONE if this deal passes. I hope Ward and the rest of the officers at the APFA can sleep at night knowing thousands of flight attendants and their families will be on the unemployment line. I would imagine, seeing that they are the junior ones anyways, many personal bankruptcys will be filed. Not to mention, the many other things that come with one losing their job. I hope those pension plans and pay rates that are being saved allow this "so called " Union leadership the ablity to sleep comfortable at night. For those of you on here who say that this is just a part of the airline industry and this happens, you need to stop and think again. This has NEVER happend here at AA and their are NO comparisons one can draw from these circumstances. Its really sad that even those who will soon be on the street never had a chance. This spite the fact that they have also been paying the same dues that every other AA f/a has been paying. I can tell you this from a legal perspective if this T/A passes without any thing in it for those being furloughed the APFA can expect a major lawsuit filed for "breach of contract" ie...the contract that was breached by members paying dues in order for the Union to protect their jobs. What a Joke!!!! VOTE NO and take your chances in BK. At least it may buy those flight attendants who will be affected some valuable time to try and put their lives in order. I gather this furlough will go to 5 years or more seniority with the company once leaves begin returning. The thing the APFA fails to forget that the junior F/A''s will be back on the line one day, and that some will not forget the actions of this union .On 4/2/2003 9:30:34 PM L1011Ret wrote:
TWAnr, yes not only does this T/A seem to target LLC F/As but from other posts nAAtive F/As are not very happy either. Personally I have been around airlines nearly forty years and this concessionary contract seems very unusual. The pilots appear to have done a much better job. I would criticize but before doing so I wish someone from APFA would provide rationale for giving up the greater of schedule or actual and some of the other concessions. And then I''d want to hear about vacation splits, passes for furloughees, and some other nearly no cost items that would appear to have been attainable. If I were a member of that organization I''d certainly lobby heavily for explanations from the leadership.
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Furlough pay doesn''t add up to much. If this is what you were counting on to survive. You would have been very dissapointed. Less than 2 years service would get one half months pay. Less than 3 years service gets one months pay. Less than 4 years service gets one and a half months pay. Over 4 years would have gotten two full months pay. All will be taxed as capital gains.
Vote No and we go to BK they still dont have to give furlough pay. Under the Emergency provision. Go ahead and look it up.
Vote No and we go to BK they still dont have to give furlough pay. Under the Emergency provision. Go ahead and look it up.
Mikey,
The furlough pay issue is more important than what you seem to think. And it will change the job as we know it. Please read:
Did John Ward know why Furlough Pay was originally negotiated INTO union contracts?
Did he know that it was negotiated INTO contracts to prevent the instability of revolving door furloughs? Does he know what will happen TO US without it?
Furlough pay historically prevented furloughs every fall and winter. It did no good for the company to furlough for Sept to Nov, Jan thru March. WITH furlough pay F/A's did not live in fear as much for their jobs being 'seasonal' ones. Now, if this passes, that will become the norm.
When furlough pay is gone, we will be living a revolving door furlough fear month by month. They could find ourselves furloughed every Sept, recalled for Thanksgiving and X-mas traffic, refurloughed for Jan thru March, recalled just before spring break and required to fly the summer. How do we get jobs for the few months in between? WE will live scattered, and unstable lives over and above what this industry already imposes on the willing.
Yes, furlough pay was negotiated INTO contracts for a reason. Give it up and you'll never get it back.
And, the company didn't even ask for APFA to give up the furlough pay. John Ward offered it to them
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On 4/3/2003 7
30 AM FA Mikey wrote:
Furlough pay doesn't add up to much. If this is what you were counting on to survive. You would have been very dissapointed. Less than 2 years service would get one half months pay. Less than 3 years service gets one months pay. Less than 4 years service gets one and a half months pay. Over 4 years would have gotten two full months pay. All will be taxed as capital gains.
Vote No and we go to BK they still dont have to give furlough pay. Under the Emergency provision. Go ahead and look it up.
The furlough pay issue is more important than what you seem to think. And it will change the job as we know it. Please read:
Did John Ward know why Furlough Pay was originally negotiated INTO union contracts?
Did he know that it was negotiated INTO contracts to prevent the instability of revolving door furloughs? Does he know what will happen TO US without it?
Furlough pay historically prevented furloughs every fall and winter. It did no good for the company to furlough for Sept to Nov, Jan thru March. WITH furlough pay F/A's did not live in fear as much for their jobs being 'seasonal' ones. Now, if this passes, that will become the norm.
When furlough pay is gone, we will be living a revolving door furlough fear month by month. They could find ourselves furloughed every Sept, recalled for Thanksgiving and X-mas traffic, refurloughed for Jan thru March, recalled just before spring break and required to fly the summer. How do we get jobs for the few months in between? WE will live scattered, and unstable lives over and above what this industry already imposes on the willing.
Yes, furlough pay was negotiated INTO contracts for a reason. Give it up and you'll never get it back.
And, the company didn't even ask for APFA to give up the furlough pay. John Ward offered it to them
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On 4/3/2003 7
30 AM FA Mikey wrote: Furlough pay doesn't add up to much. If this is what you were counting on to survive. You would have been very dissapointed. Less than 2 years service would get one half months pay. Less than 3 years service gets one months pay. Less than 4 years service gets one and a half months pay. Over 4 years would have gotten two full months pay. All will be taxed as capital gains.
Vote No and we go to BK they still dont have to give furlough pay. Under the Emergency provision. Go ahead and look it up.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
HOW ARE YOU "YES" VOTERS GOING TO FEEL WHEN NEXT YEAR WHEN AA STARTS MAKING RECORD PROFITS AND YOU TURN ON THE NEWS AND YOU SEE THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS TOASTING CARTY AND TELLING HIM HE DID A FANTASTIC JOB IN TURNING AA AROUND AND BREAKING THE UNIONS AND HERE'S A LITTLE BONUS AND STOCK OPTION PACKAGE FOR YOU! THEN HE'LL RESPOND TO THE CRITICS BY SAYING "WE'LL THE BOARD VOTED TO GIVE ME ALL OF THIS, AND AS YOU KNOW, I TOOK A %33 PAYCUT LAST YEAR. OH BY THE WAY I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE THIS WITH THE WORKERS, BUT I'M SORRY YOU GUYS HAVE A CONTRACT UNTIL 2009!"
MYABE FAMIKEY IS UNCLE DON'S PERSONAL FA!
MYABE FAMIKEY IS UNCLE DON'S PERSONAL FA!
Can someone please explain to me why the personal attacks on Flyboy4u? Seems as though the junior flight attendants have an exceptionally legitimate gripe against APFA in regard to loss of furlough pay, regardless of how little it might be.
Hopeful,
I understand your frustrated but there is no need to attack your fellow workers. If your beef is with Don Carty then I suggest you take it up with him personally. Just because anyone wants to vote YES doesn''t mean that we are in Don''s corner and you know it.
I understand your frustrated but there is no need to attack your fellow workers. If your beef is with Don Carty then I suggest you take it up with him personally. Just because anyone wants to vote YES doesn''t mean that we are in Don''s corner and you know it.
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On 4/3/2003 10:34:49 AM MiAAmi wrote:
This comment and your other comments tell us how un-informed you really are. The union is not going anywhere, its here to stay. You on the other hand should not wait for that pink slip. Take your own advise and don''t wait, correct that huge career mistake and move on.
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On 4/3/2003 10:34:49 AM MiAAmi wrote:
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On 4/2/2003 10:46:50 AM Flyboy4u wrote:
I only wish I could get my pink slip sooner than later so I can go on with my life and forget I made such a huge career mistake when I took this job.
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.On 4/2/2003 10:46:50 AM Flyboy4u wrote:
I only wish I could get my pink slip sooner than later so I can go on with my life and forget I made such a huge career mistake when I took this job.
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This comment and your other comments tell us how un-informed you really are. The union is not going anywhere, its here to stay. You on the other hand should not wait for that pink slip. Take your own advise and don''t wait, correct that huge career mistake and move on.
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I only wish that Flyboy4u and all who think the same way would leave yesterday. Just think - revenue might go up if AA could announce that all inflight staff with the really crappy attitudes have bailed.
But no, I''m sure that none of AA''s problems are the fault of any employees. Even those with crappy attitudes. Everybody knows that AA has a monopoly on air service and none of the customers ever make choices based on their perception of the employees.
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On 4/3/2003 9
46 AM Hopeful wrote:
HOW ARE YOU "YES" VOTERS GOING TO FEEL WHEN NEXT YEAR WHEN AA STARTS MAKING RECORD PROFITS AND YOU TURN ON THE NEWS AND YOU SEE THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS TOASTING CARTY AND TELLING HIM HE DID A FANTASTIC JOB IN TURNING AA AROUND AND BREAKING THE UNIONS AND HERE''S A LITTLE BONUS AND STOCK OPTION PACKAGE FOR YOU! THEN HE''LL RESPOND TO THE CRITICS BY SAYING "WE''LL THE BOARD VOTED TO GIVE ME ALL OF THIS, AND AS YOU KNOW, I TOOK A %33 PAYCUT LAST YEAR. OH BY THE WAY I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE THIS WITH THE WORKERS, BUT I''M SORRY YOU GUYS HAVE A CONTRACT UNTIL 2009!"
MYABE FAMIKEY IS UNCLE DON''S PERSONAL FA!
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You are in a fantasy world if you think we will be profitable next year.When we do start making money we still have 13 billion and more adding to that hourly to pay back.On 4/3/2003 9
46 AM Hopeful wrote: HOW ARE YOU "YES" VOTERS GOING TO FEEL WHEN NEXT YEAR WHEN AA STARTS MAKING RECORD PROFITS AND YOU TURN ON THE NEWS AND YOU SEE THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS TOASTING CARTY AND TELLING HIM HE DID A FANTASTIC JOB IN TURNING AA AROUND AND BREAKING THE UNIONS AND HERE''S A LITTLE BONUS AND STOCK OPTION PACKAGE FOR YOU! THEN HE''LL RESPOND TO THE CRITICS BY SAYING "WE''LL THE BOARD VOTED TO GIVE ME ALL OF THIS, AND AS YOU KNOW, I TOOK A %33 PAYCUT LAST YEAR. OH BY THE WAY I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE THIS WITH THE WORKERS, BUT I''M SORRY YOU GUYS HAVE A CONTRACT UNTIL 2009!"
MYABE FAMIKEY IS UNCLE DON''S PERSONAL FA!
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On 4/3/2003 10:34:49 AM MiAAmi wrote:
This comment and your other comments tell us how un-informed you really are. The union is not going anywhere, its here to stay. You on the other hand should not wait for that pink slip. Take your own advise and don''t wait, correct that huge career mistake and move on.
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Uninformed you say? All the information one needs to make this decision is now before your eyes except for that information the APFA refuses to tell its membership. ie....How many layoffs really will occur. If it was possible to Quit right now, I would have already done so. The fact is one can''t draw any unemployment when one quits their job. My family and kids still need to eat, but you senior flight attendants and the APFA don''t seem to care about that either!On 4/3/2003 10:34:49 AM MiAAmi wrote:
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On 4/2/2003 10:46:50 AM Flyboy4u wrote:
I only wish I could get my pink slip sooner than later so I can go on with my life and forget I made such a huge career mistake when I took this job.
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.On 4/2/2003 10:46:50 AM Flyboy4u wrote:
I only wish I could get my pink slip sooner than later so I can go on with my life and forget I made such a huge career mistake when I took this job.
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This comment and your other comments tell us how un-informed you really are. The union is not going anywhere, its here to stay. You on the other hand should not wait for that pink slip. Take your own advise and don''t wait, correct that huge career mistake and move on.
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On 4/3/2003 11:13:04 AM ExitPointer wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why the personal attacks on Flyboy4u? Seems as though the junior flight attendants have an exceptionally legitimate gripe against APFA in regard to loss of furlough pay, regardless of how little it might be.
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Thanks for you support on here. I may or may not get furloughed with my seniority all I am trying to say on this board is that others need to look at the "Big" picture and realize the ramifications of this concession deal. It seems to me that the APFA''s only concern is for those with lots of seniority with this company. Not to mention , the many selfish flight attendants out on the line with seniority at this company who could care less about their fellow employess and their well-being. I just think its sad that even the union which many of us junior flight attendants respected let us down! Where is the justice in this world? I cant tell you that I dread going to work now because of all the instability on the line right now, but until I get a "pink slip" I have no choice in the matter.On 4/3/2003 11:13:04 AM ExitPointer wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why the personal attacks on Flyboy4u? Seems as though the junior flight attendants have an exceptionally legitimate gripe against APFA in regard to loss of furlough pay, regardless of how little it might be.
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On 4/3/2003 730 AM FA Mikey wrote:
Furlough pay doesn''t add up to much. If this is what you were counting on to survive. You would have been very dissapointed. Less than 2 years service would get one half months pay. Less than 3 years service gets one months pay. Less than 4 years service gets one and a half months pay. Over 4 years would have gotten two full months pay. All will be taxed as capital gains.
Vote No and we go to BK they still dont have to give furlough pay. Under the Emergency provision. Go ahead and look it up.
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Furlough pay is at least Something . It at least says we do care about all of our members. This Union threw that away as well as the rest of our Rights. This is going to turn out to be nasty scandal that the APFA thinks they will get away with. The APFA has some serious explaining to do to its membership concerning this concession deal. Does anyone know why the APFA hasn''t posted the number of job losses associated with this package? Hmmm.....Maybe it doesn''t want you to know what is reall goin on. This Union will go away soon!! VOTE NOOn 4/3/2003 7
30 AM FA Mikey wrote:Furlough pay doesn''t add up to much. If this is what you were counting on to survive. You would have been very dissapointed. Less than 2 years service would get one half months pay. Less than 3 years service gets one months pay. Less than 4 years service gets one and a half months pay. Over 4 years would have gotten two full months pay. All will be taxed as capital gains.
Vote No and we go to BK they still dont have to give furlough pay. Under the Emergency provision. Go ahead and look it up.
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