usairways85
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sorry the 2nd part of my response was not directed at your post, it was towards another post
LHR Destinations on US Airways
- Thread starter Eastern727
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sorry the 2nd part of my response was not directed at your post, it was towards another post
if you are an F/A , you may look it up in your "annoncement booklet": the yellow one. :down:
usairways85
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AA flew PHL-LHR but that was quite some time ago at least 10-15 years ago.
For March, there are at least 12 plus non-stops LAX to LHR, daily. with real aircraft. with real service.
Somehow, I don't think having a domicile in LAX has anything to do with it.
BuffaloJoe
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AA transfered the flight to DFW or whereever, but UA still has rights to fly PHL-LHR, if they have the slot available then they can operate the route, the question what comes into play, is that codeshare will not be allowed, as BA and AA can not. UA wouldn't be able to fly US passengers under a codeshare, it would have to be strictly O&D for UA to operate the route. Whats to stop Virgin from flying into PHL. They just need to find a gate in PHL. I answered my own question. If UA would happen to start the route to LHR, then that would be in competition not only from BA, US as well. So they leave that alone. Plus if people really wanted to do UA, they could by flying down to IAD and connect. What I would do though is if US gets a plane with range, fly PHX to LGW, then BA would have to move their LHR flight over, which they may or may not do.
As for AF, I just never knew that route did well. I walked pass their gate a few times just prior to boarding and it didn't seem like there were all that many. And then again, it could have been a slow day for them, and I happen to see that.
I know US would never fly the LAX route, I just wanted to see LAX get 1 vote. Just to be nice that at least every city had a vote.
TheWatcher
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What? Have you seen the product BA offers compared to the product US offers? Surely you are mad
BuffaloJoe
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But it would force BA to go to LGW instead of LHR. But by the time US would get a plane capable of flying the route, it will be all irrelivant anyway.What? Have you seen the product BA offers compared to the product US offers? Surely you are mad
I don't think that's true. AA didn't even start flying to LHR from other gateway cities (JFK, MIA, LAX) until late 1990 after it purchased TWA's slots for $445 million. In hindsight, that's a bargain. But never did they have route authority to fly from PHL. BA has always had that exclusive route, based on the Bermuda agreement. The UA comment earlier in this thread is news to me. UA and US only recently became partners. Why didn't UA compete earlier on this route if they had permission to fly it?
Early on, the BA route was actually PIT-PHL-LHR, LHR-EWR-PHL. That was the only PHL route to london, and it wasn't even a plane that carried all PHL pax. By the end of the 90's, you had 2 BA flights to LHR nonstop(both O&D'ing to PHL) and 2 more from US to LGW. Not bad for a 10 year period.
BuffaloJoe
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UA did not want to infringe on US LGW service. UA could fly the route, bujt it CAN NOT Codeshare with US on it, just as AA can't codeshare with BA. So instead of competing with US, UA just as well do the IAD flights. Virgin could fly into PHL at any time and I wonder why they didn't take on BA on the route.
I'm not sure that is true. I don't think that there is a restriction on UA/US. The reason that AA/BA cannot codeshare is that they both are LHR airlines and are the largest 2 carriers US-LHR. UA/US presents no similar problem. I do know that some VS flights to LHR are codeshared with CO, so it is possible to do.
usairways85
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Alright, i initially misunderstood your original statement
i found the specifics on another board
TWA operated PHL-LHR, when AA took over TWA's LHR operation AA gained PHL as well. AA operated PHL-LHR for a short time, no longer than a year or two in the early '90s. AA dropped the route first because US was growing in PHL and second they wanted to use the slot at one of their bigger airports.
Also says that after TWA sold its LHR flts they started BWI/PHL-LGW and then later sold those two routes to US.
BMI is considering LHR-CLT, obviously because US is a Star partner... US needs to beat them to it, drop Gatwick in favor of LHR. BMI could do CLT-MAN (although so could US... isnt MAN one of US's most profitable routes?) Where is BM getting more A330s if US can't?
Open skies could shut local routes
Oliver Morgan, industrial editor
Sunday March 25, 2007
The Observer
The need to build a third runway at Heathrow has been underlined by last week's agreement on phase one of an 'open skies' deal between Europe and the US, say senior government officials.
Whitehall sources have indicated that the deal, which allows all EU carriers to fly to the US, will mean some will switch capacity from domestic routes to the US, 'squeezing out' links to UK regions.
Government officials are concerned airlines such as BMI will switch their Heathrow take-off and landing slots from routes serving the regions to US routes in search of higher revenues.
They believe this could threaten the economies of regions such as the north east and Northern Ireland by reducing direct and transfer traffic.
One official said: 'You will begin to see a pattern of carriers squeezing out regional links from Heathrow. The transport white paper flagged the economic benefits of a third runway at Heathrow and the open skies deal underlines the importance of increasing the capacity there, particularly if we are going to keep links between London and the regions.'
BMI chief executive Nigel Turner said he expected to switch domestic routes to the US when the 'open skies' deal comes into effect next spring. He said BMI is likely to start with three flights a day, possibly to Chicago, Charlotte, North Carolina or New York. BMI plans to buy another three Airbus A330 planes to service the routes. The airline is looking to expand US routes in future.
Turner said: 'Inevitably there will be some reduction in short-haul flying' and added that increases to air passenger duty, which is levied on each take-off and landing in the UK, would mean UK regional routes would be the most likely to be re-allocated.
He added that BMI would look to reduce business-class fares across the Atlantic by some 10 per cent and ruled out any sale of its Heathrow slots.
British Airways is also planning to shuffle its routes by moving the three US destinations now served from Gatwick to Heathrow. The first, next summer, will be its twice-daily flight to Houston, with services to Dallas and Austin following.
BA has strongly criticised the phase one deal because it precludes EU airlines taking controlling stakes in US carriers and flying within the US. These points will be negotiated over the next four years as part of phase two. If there is no progress, phase one will be cancelled.
BA chief executive Willie Walsh said that if there was a phase two agreement, BA would look to set up a 'mini hub' at New York's JFK airport. He said that the airline currently operates eight flights a day to JFK and would be able to more than double terminal capacity there.
Open skies could shut local routes
Oliver Morgan, industrial editor
Sunday March 25, 2007
The Observer
The need to build a third runway at Heathrow has been underlined by last week's agreement on phase one of an 'open skies' deal between Europe and the US, say senior government officials.
Whitehall sources have indicated that the deal, which allows all EU carriers to fly to the US, will mean some will switch capacity from domestic routes to the US, 'squeezing out' links to UK regions.
Government officials are concerned airlines such as BMI will switch their Heathrow take-off and landing slots from routes serving the regions to US routes in search of higher revenues.
They believe this could threaten the economies of regions such as the north east and Northern Ireland by reducing direct and transfer traffic.
One official said: 'You will begin to see a pattern of carriers squeezing out regional links from Heathrow. The transport white paper flagged the economic benefits of a third runway at Heathrow and the open skies deal underlines the importance of increasing the capacity there, particularly if we are going to keep links between London and the regions.'
BMI chief executive Nigel Turner said he expected to switch domestic routes to the US when the 'open skies' deal comes into effect next spring. He said BMI is likely to start with three flights a day, possibly to Chicago, Charlotte, North Carolina or New York. BMI plans to buy another three Airbus A330 planes to service the routes. The airline is looking to expand US routes in future.
Turner said: 'Inevitably there will be some reduction in short-haul flying' and added that increases to air passenger duty, which is levied on each take-off and landing in the UK, would mean UK regional routes would be the most likely to be re-allocated.
He added that BMI would look to reduce business-class fares across the Atlantic by some 10 per cent and ruled out any sale of its Heathrow slots.
British Airways is also planning to shuffle its routes by moving the three US destinations now served from Gatwick to Heathrow. The first, next summer, will be its twice-daily flight to Houston, with services to Dallas and Austin following.
BA has strongly criticised the phase one deal because it precludes EU airlines taking controlling stakes in US carriers and flying within the US. These points will be negotiated over the next four years as part of phase two. If there is no progress, phase one will be cancelled.
BA chief executive Willie Walsh said that if there was a phase two agreement, BA would look to set up a 'mini hub' at New York's JFK airport. He said that the airline currently operates eight flights a day to JFK and would be able to more than double terminal capacity there.
The 1991 sale of TWA LHR slots to AA only included JFK/LAX/ORD/BOS. What I've learned in limited research is that PHL-LHR was, in fact, later sold to AA in a seperate transaction. But USAir purchasd PIT, BWI and PHL to LGW for $50M in 1992 when TWA actually sold their London authority, keeping STL. CLT-LGW was always permitted since it was previously authorized to Piedmont.
My question is now - does AA or UA actually have authority to fly PHL-LHR now?
