Make Mine a Colt-45 Please

AAG2000

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Aug 20, 2002
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Does anyone else find this disturbing? Evidently plenty of pilots feel otherwise, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, but as a frequent traveler, I don't believe any good can come of this. Everyone knows the statistics regarding guns in the home--they end up hurting family members far more often than intruders. I can see the same thing happening in cockpits. It's one thing to have trained armed guards on board, but quite another to arm pilots.

As soon as a hijacking is thwarted by a gun-toting pilot, you can serve me up some crow medium rare, but in the meantime, I think this is a terrible idea. I hope time and experience prove me wrong.
 

AAG2000

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I agree--at this point there are many easier targets than airliners. These days, I feel much less safe riding the subway than I do on planes.
 

Hopeful

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I think the element of surprise of using an airliner as a missile is gone. I would think they would not try it again, but having us think that they would not try it again may prove us wrong. I hope I'm wrong, but I think somewhere down the road we may see another attempt.
 
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WingNaPrayer

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Nothing is going to change until someone gets shot and/or killed on board by a pilot packing a pistol.

Personally, I don't think any terrorist group will ever make a run at aircraft again (from on board)...been there, done that, now they need something new. They have laid waste to the air transportation system and left it in a shambles, and that is a success in the minds of terrorists.

Now, they need to find something just as grandiose, but new and different.
 

AAG2000

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Oh please. Spare us the 2nd Amendment crap, Dissident, and let's talk about planes here, not the Constitution. I didn't say a word about anyone's right to bear arms, or even that airliners shouldn't be protected by people carrying weapons. If you want to keep a gun--or a whole arsenal, whatever floats your boat--in your house, go right ahead. All I am saying is that I personally don't think it's a good idea for pilots--who are already busy enough flying the plane--to attempt to take on the added role of security guard. It is my personal opinion that having armed air marshals on board would prevent hijackings just as effectively.

In fact, even that may not be necessary. The events of 9/11 changed the way people deal with hijacking attempts. In the past, conventional wisdom said everyone should sit down, shut up, and let the bad guys fly to Cuba or wherever. Well, we all know that's not going to happen anymore. Hijackers will never have that element of surprise again. I guarantee that, while we're figuring out ways for pilots to go packing heat, there are terrorists thinking of new methods that will make this whole thing a moot point.
 

DFWCC

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Aug 19, 2002
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If the airlines invested millions to secure cockpit doors, why does a pilot need a handgun? The very second he opens the cockpit door million$ have gone in the trash. The main purpose of the secure cockpit was to keep a pilot in control of the aircraft. Do you think he can fly with one hand and shoot with the other. Only John Wayne could do that.
PS I'm not anti-handgun as a matter of fact I own a Ross .38cal. Maybe I should be able to take my gun on the ramp. You never know a terrorist might attack a fuel truck.
 

The Dissident

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Dec 21, 2002
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AAG2000 said in leftist liberal anti gun propaganda.


Everyone knows the statistics regarding guns in the home--they end up hurting family members far more often than intruders. I can see the same thing happening in cockpits. It's one thing to have trained armed guards on board, but quite another to arm pilots.



I can tell buy your response that you have probably never owned a gun before. This is a complete flasehood perpatrated buy the anti gun movement. Guns are used defensivly buy the average american more than 2 million times a year, thats right 2 million times a year and yet wheres the carnage. I have personally used mine to defend me and my family several times to deter would be predators from harming us. I doubt that if the pilots had guns that the Islamic terrorists would have been able to gain control of the cockpits of the aircraft on 9-11. It is a proven fact that states that enact concealed carry laws have a significant drop in crime. Why you ask? Because preadtory criminals realize there is a good chance their intended victim just may be packing a weapon and will end their criminal career.I would feel much safer with an armed flight crew than not knowing weather or not there just might be a air marshal on board.
 

Winglet

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I guess it depends on if YOU'RE on an airplane that is targeted by terrorists for a suicide mission. I doubt if our liberal friends would hold the same opinion if that happened.

Like so many liberal hypocrits, they want to make rules for everybody else but when it comes down to THEM, the rules don't apply.

Sort of reminds me of these Hollywood hypocrits who tell me that I'm evil for having a Jeep Cherokee, while they ride around in Lincolns and SUVs themselves.

Well . . . for those of you that don't like pilots armed for a last ditch defense of the cockpit and command of the aircraft, you know what you can go do to yourself. I want at least a fighting chance to go home to my wife and children should the worst happen. Obviously, some of you would rather push your political agenda rather than care about me, my passengers, and my family. Again, you know what you can do.
 

dfw79

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Aug 20, 2002
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I'll buy into the armed flight crews if they can proove...5, 4, 3, 2, or even 1 person can be taken down by the flight crew as they charge the cockpit. Next time it doesn't have to be box cutters...we all could think of countless items that can be cracked or shaped into a dangerous item. Soon as the cockpit door falls...the pilots will need to ready to have the flight deck stormed. These weirdos are all about dying - so what is against someone being a human shield and jumping on the gun.

If they want the plane - they'll take the plane, but like has been said...they won't do it again for awhile. The whole thing about terrorists is to cause mass fear. I think they are doing a pretty good job causing the governments to issue all these color alerts, consider guns in the cockpit, etc.

Attention needs to be put on the door. If they make it impossible to bust the door down - no need for a gun onboard.
 

dogdriver

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Aug 21, 2002
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dfw79,
If and when those 5,4,3,2 or even 1 terrorist scumbags come rushing through the cockpit door, what chance do you have without a gun? This is so simple that even a blind man can see it.
 

TWAnr

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[blockquote]
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On 2/20/2003 1:26:56 PM The Dissident wrote:

As an aircraft mechanic I would love to see all of the flight crew armed such as on El AL.
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[/blockquote]

The only El Al crew members who are armed are the sky marshals. At least that is what my cousin, a retired El Al chief pilot, tells me.
 

dfw79

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/20/2003 11:23:03 AM dogdriver wrote:

dfw79,
If and when those 5,4,3,2 or even 1 terrorist scumbags come rushing through the cockpit door, what chance do you have without a gun? This is so simple that even a blind man can see it.

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[/blockquote]

Those expensive new doors are suppose to prevent that, are they not?

I go back to my human shield example. First guy comes in and lunges on the pilot with the gun...the others storm in and kill the crew members. They now also have a gun to take care of other people that may try to rush the cockpit to take the plane back (like what may have occurred on the United 757).

The only real way to secure the cockpit would be to have a secondary cockpit entrance from the outside only. Similar to another cargo door on the bottom of the plane, it would simply be a set of stairs that allows the crew to enter the plane and go directly up into the flight deck through an isolated compartment. Only opening to the cabin could be through a small door to slide meals to the crews. You get the idea...far more expensive, and current planes can't be retrofitted...but with the right layout - could work quite well.
 

The Dissident

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I think the biggest problem you have with the flying public is that they are truly uninformed about the airline industry and are trying to give an informed opinon. As an aircraft mechanic I would love to see all of the flight crew armed such as on El AL. As a mechanic I have installed plenty of the new bulletproof doors on the airplanes and there would be no problem with the flight crew defending the cockpit with firearms if on the slim chance and i mean very slim chance they were able to figure out a way to breach it. As the old saying goes never bring a knife to a gun fight!!!


Also AG what really set me off was your statement on how guns injure their owners more than the people they are trying to defend themselves against. That type of thinking shows that you know absolutely nothing about firearms and should refrain from making comments concerning Armed flight crews. The flight crews are highly trained people alot of them with a military background. I have the faith that they would be able to not only handle the aircraft but also a weapon at the same time.