Mda To Republic

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

I find your argument of little substance since you will not give up one-day to go to the MEC meeting and get the facts, which speaks volumes about your personality and commitment to the finding out correct information. In addition, I will not try to insult you by cut and pasting a series of dots, which is cute, but is womething my 7-year old does not do.

I know, I know, I have heard the argument before from people like you that your time off is way too valuable to support your union or you cannot make a difference anyway, so what's the use. After all it's better sittnig most of the day behind a keyboard and PC than going to the MEC meeting and trying to provide the MEC with input, right?

Let me spell the issue out in simplistic terms: there is no question that 300 additional pilot positions in the new US Airways is good for the MDA and the mainline pilots, but, in the end, you have to bring a job to the merger to be considered part of the merger. That is the problem in its basic form and if you would simply go get the facts instead of always trying to "shoot down" ALPA or the company than you would be more credible.

There is not a pilot in this company that does not want to see every furloughed pilot flying for US Airways Group or is turning their back on the MDA piltos. When those EMB-170 assests are sold there are no jobs for the MDA pilots except J4J or CEL ppositions, period. Harsh, but true because I will not make up an invalid argument or sugar coat reality, which I believe lacks integrity.

If pilots are still flying the EMB-170 when the last aircraft is transferred to Republic, providing the transaction proceeds, unfortunately the MDA pilots left on the property will be furloughed by the company.

Thus, when would now be a good time for you to show some initiative and attend a MEC meeting to become truly informed?

In my opinion, you're the one who has the problem with "fact talks and BS walks, and so far all you've got is BS." Why? Your comments are in conflict with ALPA National, the US Airways MEC, the ALPA legal Department, and ALPA's advisors.

Instead of talking to the experts keep up the "smoke and mirrors" to build your baseless argument, which is not supported by your own union.

Do I like this situation? No, of course not, but I will not duck the hard questions, refuse to accept reality, or use "smoke and mirror" type message board posts to try to misrepresent a topic I may not personally agree with.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

Your comments are in conflict with ALPA National, the US Airways MEC, the ALPA legal Department, and ALPA's advisors.

[post="277175"][/post]​

You mean the company's statements, don't you? I didn't write the BK filings. I didn't write the annual reports. I notice you still present nothing to refute those statements.

Of course, it you think ALPA knows more about company transactions than the company does, that seems to be your problem.

I know, I know, I have heard the argument before from people like you that your time off is way too valuable to support your union or you cannot make a difference anyway, so what's the use.

[post="277175"][/post]​

People like me, huh. Since you know nothing about me, that's a pretty strong statement. Especially from someone who only kibitzes from the sidelines. Instead of making so much noise about how much you don't like what's happening, but "What can one person do" you should invest your time & energy in actually doing something for your fellow pilots.

I have - over 14 years of ALPA volunteer work. On days off. On vacation days. So take your "participation" - showing up at MEC meetings when most are in your home city - and shove it. You have no right to preach to anyone, including me, about ALPA participation.

Jim

ps - I still see that you can't refute the facts. Didn't you get "informed" at the MEC meeting?

 

[markkus757]

I could be wrong here but I thought MDA ran off of the same operating certificate that US does. If this is true, the FAA considers them the same airline. They have more say in how the airline runs than ALPA, IAM, or even US itself. I have a feeling that A320 only has views of a select few in the ALPA union that can and will do anything to protect their meal-ticket. You should pray they don't get rid of the E-170. That means you'll be next A320.

 

[TheLarkAscending]

BoeingBoy:

I find your argument of little substance since you will not give up one-day to go to the MEC meeting and get the facts, which speaks volumes about your personality and commitment to the finding out correct information. In addition, I will not try to insult you by cut and pasting a series of dots, which is cute, but is womething my 7-year old does not do.

News flash! What you find isn't valid. Jim attending or not attending a meeting has nothing whatsoever to do with the facts and badgering is simply a dodge and duck technique utilized to take the focus away from the issue. Does the referenced seven year old repeat, nag & badger like his old man? Which, btw, isn't cute...(dot dot dot 😉 )

 

[Rico]

Sigh...

Being as ALPA National has not said anything in public about this, and being as the AAA MEC itself has only replied to repeated inquires with a letter that merely detailed out the "ALPA Merger Policy"... <_< , And the ALPA lawyers/advisors/staff have adopted a "silence mode" in regards to this subject...

I really doubt that those lawyers/advisors are telling the US Airways MEC officers that they have a "great case" against counting MDA, rather IMO is is probably more akin to damage control and suggested advice/tactics to try and get around the obvious truth...

And thus the whole "focus on the not-recalled thing", or the "focus on the sale of MDA" banter that has been thrown about to muddle and blur the real issues at hand...

I just think that what the AAA MEC is doing sets real bad precedent. Like I said, if the E-170 aircraft are not to be counted, then who is to say that the 60 narrowbody A/C leaving should either... That is why the whole thing about "bringing jobs to the merger" is not the way things are done...

Plus, once again you, nor anyone else really has a good idea where MDA is actally headed in the future. A simple replacement of the current E-170 fleet with larger E-190's is still a strong possibility into the future, especially if jetBlue is very successful with their own fleet. Unlike the failed metrojet "experiement", MDA was, and could be even moreso revenue positive...

But the thing is, once the "snapshot" is taken, it is very hard to go back and change things (after the fact). THAT is why the MDA pilots are pushing hard right now to get this issue resolved, not after the merger negotiations are underway or complete...

I understand that Officer's egos bruise, and plans "hate" to be changed, but that is a small price to pay to make sure that this whole affair is done correctly.


Make the right count.

 

[jimntx]

Plus, once again you, nor anyone else really has a good idea where MDA is actally headed in the future. A simple replacement of the current E-170 fleet with larger E-190's is still a strong possibility into the future, especially if jetBlue is very successful with their own fleet. Unlike the failed metrojet "experiement", MDA was, and could be even moreso revenue positive...

[post="277205"][/post]​

Rico, judging from the posting regarding the revised GE financing agreement, it looks like there won't be time to "replace" anything with E-190's. There are 18 E-170's (15 current + 3 as yet undelivered a/c) whose leases are being reassigned to Republic.

copied from BoeingBoy's post:
Future RJ financing:
- The financing for 31 future US RJ's is eliminated.
- GE will provide leases for 10 Emb-170/190/195's to third party carriers.

Revised current RJ financing:

- GE will provide leases for the 3 undelivered Emb-170's to Republic.
- GE agrees to assign the leases on 15 MDA Emb-170's to Republic.

There doesn't seem to be any equivocation on this point. More telling unlike the return of the B737, A319/320 a/c there is no schedule for the RJ reassignments. I'm assuming that means that the reassignments are to take place all at once and soon (upon comletion of merger agreement?).

 

[BoeingBoy]

jimntx,

First, don't make too much of my wording. If anyone else is interested in going through the filing and correcting any mistakes I made, please do.

Second, barring revision, the Republic a/c sale/slot agreement calls for transferring 3 aircraft per month so we're looking at the possibility of 8 months to transfer all of them.

I agree, though, that it looks like there are no long-range plans to operate the Emb-170 family in house.

Jim

 

[Rico]

Well, if anything proves to be a constant in this industry, it is whatever is the cheapest way to do things usually is what they go for.

MDA has been, and still would be cheaper than having Republic (or Mesa in their CRJ-900's) handle that flying. "Cost is King" afterall...

No doubt, the current fleet of MDA E-170's is going to be transferred off property, that's a done deal at this point.

After that, and overall from here on out, I think that no future E-170 purchases will occur, IMO in favor of eventually maintaining a fleet of the larger E-190's instead. The E-170's are profitable and serve a good niche in DCA, but many of the same advantages the 170 has otherwise can be had in the 190 (with the additonal seating).

The new management has indicated an interest in growing that segment of flying to "replace" the returned U narrowbodies, and like I mentioned, if jetBlue is successful, then IMO the E-190 will become the "must have aircraft" in the near future.

I know as well as anyone that all this comes right down to financing, but then again that did not hold them back before when U was obviously on it's way towards another visit to BK, nor even inside of BK.

IMO, the new management is very interested in the E-190, but they are not going to address the issue publicly until the merger is fully approved, and U is out of bankruptcy. They have nothing to gain by doing so right now.

In the meantime I would guess that Republic will start to bring on additional E-Jets, starting with the first three E-170's sitting in Brazil right now, and then begin the longer process of bringing the current MDA planes and people on over throughout this year and into the next. But IMO the transfer rate of A/C from MDA to Republic takes into account not just the three new E-170's I spoke of, but leaving space to bring on additional "new" airframes that most likely will be E-190's.

Those Republic/US Airways Express E-190's will be watched closely by the New U management, and if they work well and are profitable, then I would assume at that time you would see the new management team commit to bringing them onboard here...

Using the numbers then generated by Republic, and with the uncertainty of the merger behind them, they would be in a much better position to lease or acquire those new airframes.

Just my speculation, but it seems to fit with, and make sense in the situation the merged company will be in the near future. Plus I just think the concessions that are involved with MDA are just too good for them to pass up on, especially if used in a manner to counter jetBlue.

Just my opinion

 

[CaptianBoomer]

Integrity?????

320, I find your sudden ALPA conversion to be laughable, especially considering your op ed piece in the Charlotte Observer a few years ago.

ALPA is many things, but they aren't RIGHT all the time. The have been very WRONG many times. ALPA is taking this position and not fighting this because they have created this mess and they want it all to go away and for them to be blameless in the end result......therefore if the assets are sold to Republic their hands are clean and the added benefit is that the new pilots flying the jet will still pay dues!

If the Republic transaction doesn't proceed, which seems unlikely right now, ALPA will have a large mess on its hands and they will have blood on their hands from the guys that get their balls cut off because of their ineptness. Two things control ALPA.....money and fear. Right now they can keep the money stream and they are fearful of being sued over representational issues. Don't take a stand and hope the whole mess goes away.

320, have you decided that harmony with the AWA group is preferable to keeping your own pilots on the list with a possible job? You need to stop saying that you don't like the situation and that there is nothing you can do and trying to get BoeingBoy to go and spout off at the meeting.....you were there. Did you defend the careers of your fellow pilots? Those aircraft that are removed from the U fleet should not be counted vis-a-vis pilot counts because they are being removed from the U fleet not because they don't contribute to the merger, but because U is in BK and an OUTSIDE entity (GE) is controlling what aircraft go where.

I hope you see the forest for what it is before it is too late.....you may "I'm sorry and I don't like it any more than you" yourself right out of a job.

Boomer

 

[elixir]

Agreed, 320, are you proposing that "the good of the many outweigh the needs of the few"? specifically, Airways pilots who are being castrated by their own union? Since when did this "cut loose the dead weight " ideology take hold? It continues to astound me what convoluded methods ALPA will resort to in order to save face when they have by errors or omissions, F'd this whole thing up. Boomer is right, they have been wrong as much as right, and turn the other cheeck in the face of accountability, or adversity.

Some union.

 

[Hope777]

Does anyone know the amount of money the company would have saved if we never added the 170 to the fleet?

So,with the transfering of 170's to Republic, does the 170 divison go down in history along with operation high ground, Business Select, MetroJet and on and on.......I think you get my point.

 

[Rico]

Does anyone know the amount of money the company would have saved if we never added the 170 to the fleet?

So,with the transfering of 170's to Republic, does the 170 divison go down in history along with operation high ground, Business Select, MetroJet and on and on........

Well being as they are getting paid for what they put into the aircraft, sim , and parts I would assume that U is not out that much. If anything the main loss will be the cost of training personnel and not having them there for more than two years...

But by all accounts the operation was revenue positive, and customer satisfaction with Midatlantic whas been very high.

I think you get my point

Oh yeah, I have not heard it as often anymore, but I know your point well..., Use MDA as a easy target to vent your fustrations upon.

Doing so as the operation is being outsourced... Well, that just makes you seem even more pathetic to me.

I think you get my point.

 

[sfb]

But by all accounts the operation was revenue positive, and customer satisfaction with Midatlantic whas been very high.

I would hope that all parts of the company which actually carry paying passengers are "revenue positive" -- the real question is whether Midatlantic added to the bottom line.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Oh yeah, I have not heard it as often anymore, but I know your point well..., Use MDA as a easy target to vent your fustrations upon.

Doing so as the operation is being outsourced... Well, that just makes you seem even more pathetic to me.

I think you get my point.

[post="277263"][/post]​

Rico,

I think Hope was referring to spending money on something only to drop it (or outsource it in this case) and didn't mean that as a slam against MDA and it's people but at management.

BTW, I agree with your thought that MDA should be kept and expanded - but then I believe we'd be better off with all USEX flying in house.

Jim

 

[fr8tmastr]

320,
Now that Airways will outsource 118 seat aircraft you think your not next? I just read an article on the new cabin on the bombardier product, 150 seats. I wonder if you will still be pro company when they want to outsource your 320 and replace it with MESA flying the new "RJ". I know what your saying "do I like it, no of course not" Just remember nobody thought the union would give up 70 seaters let alone the 118 seats that they have. It is not much of a stretch for the next one.