Mechanics turn down the concessions.

[mastermechanic]

Were you not so pathetic and masochistic, I could feel sorry for you, but should this end up in CH 11, I hope you get everything you deserve and a bit extra for good measure!

There we go again...anger, anger...what would suggest for the other 7500 mechanics????

 

[prechilill]

What do you people expect? When you unfairly beat on a particular employee group for over a decade, what makes you think they will care what really happens with their career at United Airlines? You see, it is about morale, and morale can kill a company. Some of you may refer to the mechs as grease monkeys and berate their landlslide decision to reject the T/A, but you forget that they own a skill that is in great demand. Why should they take concessions, for example, when another employee group signed a contract just before them with full retro the day of signing? Why should they sign a contract that has no job protection language in outsourcing maintenance? The smart ones who voted no (probably the more junior mechs) realized either way the company is done so they might as well get as much out of it as they can. Simply stated, it is a question of equity and fair treatment, and for the past ten years UAL has gone out of their way to mistreat this particular employee group. Now, the rest of the overpaid employees are going to have to do what the mechanics have been doing for the past decade- take one for the Gipper!

 

[wts54]

I can only imagine how paltry 6-7% is going to look to the Bankruptcy judge, and you only have yourself to blame at this point. How idiotic!!


mancityfan,thanks for explaining it,but it does sound like you said you only.sorry

 

[prechilill]

You mechs would have been nuts to sign off on that POS T/A. In the airline business, it's all about job protection, and I do not mean no fulough clauses or the like. The issue is not the pay, either, but the deliberate outsourcing of maintenance. The strong arm tactics by Tilton's management team has backfired becuase too many times in the past CEO's have whipsawed employee groups and the mechs at UAL see the handwriting on the wall. UAL DIRECTLY STATED WHAT THEY THINK OF THE MECHS WITH THEIR OUTSOURCING LANGUAGE IN THE T/A. UAL management may as well have said: you are a problem to us and we are going to finish you off with outsourcing. Totally pathetic thay nobody can see this, but of course most of you on this board are soda slingers or overpaid pilots with no clue what the words concession or outsourcing mean.

 

[1AA]

(quote from mastermechanic)
Why do you think 57% of the mechanics voted no???



The vote was rejected by a 57% margin. Not by 57%. If it were 57% then it would only be a 14% margin.

Definition of margin- the amount by which somthing is higher or lower (to win by a wide margin)

That sounds like a pretty loud NO!
A rejection by a 57% margin equates to
78.5% NO
21.5% YES

 

[prechilill]

Let's talk a little about outsourcing maintenance.
Let's look at some case studies in oursourcing. Remember Bill Franke? Yes, the guy that fired 500 mechanics on Christmas Eve. You see, the plan was to outsource maintenance and save America West 25 million a year. AWA fell a little short of that goal, however, to the tune of about -75 million. The costs acutally went up 5o million a year. Now, that is no chump change for a little company that only has 2 billion a year in sales.
Want another example? How about Valujet? Now there is a great example of outsourcing. But, you probably say those companies are mismanged, and I agree 100%. In fact, so is UAL, so what makes you think UAL management could do any better managing an outsourcing program than say Bill Franke at America West. By the way, I did not include the ten million in maintenance fines AWA got nor did I mention AWA was hours away from being shut down for maintenance record errors.
You see, the IAM just saved this management from itself by voting no. History proves it!

 

[prechilill]

What is up with the mechanics's union? The exact same thing that is up with the pilot's union and the flight attendants!

 

[JFK777]

What is it about mechanics and their unions? At Eastern it was the mechanics that killed the airline. AT UAL they are large stockholders, they are saying they can afford to loose their stock in a bankruptcy. It may be close to worthless now but it could come back. Killing UA is not in anyone's interest.

Some factions have argued to sell some of the international routes. Are DAL or AA in any shape to pay a billion dollars for the Tokyo hub? Not today. Would AA really be interested? They now fly to NRT from SJC, DFW, ORD, JFK & in 4/03 from LAX. IF they bought UA's NRT they would gain SEA & SFO, two cities not core to AA operations. They would gain frequency from places like ORD, JFK and LAX & beyond rights (if the Japanesse let them transfer) but I don't think these traffic rights today are worth a billion dollars.

Other unions should be updet at the mechanics, they always think of themselves not the entire airline industry.

 

[RV4]

Maybe if the Pilots and F/A's had not been getting ALL of the pie over the last 50 years, while the Mechanics were strapped with a strength in numbers industrial union, then the mechanics would have felt as if they had something left to give.

The NMB and Federal Govt. screwed them on more than one occasion in their attempts to correct that situation. Once screwed by the NMB, Govt, Company, and Company Union, regardless of the outcome, the mechanic are not going to take the loaf of bread while others take the meat and potatoes.

Truth is, on many flights, it is really the avionics and stystem mechanic that is flying the aircraft anyway (AutoPilot). These fine professionals were just recently acknowledge by the AMFA/NWA P.E.B. presentation and the outcome was for once in the favor of the mechanic without the unskilled in the equation.

Right or Wrong, the UAL Mechanics did not want to be responsible the reversal of such a long fought gain.

Face it, the mechanics are now industry/profession thinkers and protectors, instead of patsy's that protect the unskilled.

The time has come for all mechanics to gather into ONE single union. And that union is non-AFL-CIO AMFA.

 

[jb]

MM,

I am new to this forum and have just read through what you have to say. I'm shocked!

You have such a poor attitude about this company, and your fellow employees, not to mention your fellow mechanics. The view you have on things is VERY worped. Are you the mechanic that says It's not my job when a passenger asks if you could see if a stroller is down below? Wake up. This is about us as employees against the rest of the world. Previous UAL management intentionally divided the labor groups so that one would try to derail the other. You, sir, are their poster child. This is not about the mechanics vs. the pilots, vs. the F/A's vs. whoever. Once that is realized then we might move forward.

You make attacks against ALPA and the pilots. Is this routed in jealousy? From the sound of your post you appear to have communist thoughts. Do you think everyone at UAL should be paid the same amount of money? If so...That's a big part of communism. If you want the pay and benefits of a pilot, become a pilot. To do that you have to go to school or the military and learn the physical and mental skills to do so. You also have to spend many years making sub-poverty wages flight instructing and working at the regionals before you MIGHT have a chance at getting on with a major. If you want to be a CEO or upper management, then go to business school and get your MBA. The jealousy thing reminds me a lot of grade school. It's not warranted and should not be a part of someone who's self perceived level of intelligence is high. I have an aquaintance, who at age 36 retired a multi-milionaire because of a product he got involved with at the ground floor. Should I be jealous of him becasue he's set for life? I am envious, yes. jealous, no! The two are entirely different concepts and ideas. Should I try and take him down just to spite him? Absolutely not. All the more power to him.

I will not defend the summer of 2000. It was not a good thing and a lot of people's personal integrity was severely compromised. Will you defend the mechanics because they caused an uproar over timeclocks because after a few warnings they (the mechanics) couldn't police themselves?

Once you and your fellow mechanics (this is directed to EVERY employee group) get past this jealousy kick then we will move on as a whole. If we continue the infighting then we shall surely perish. If you don't like United, quit. It's that simple. Don't just come to work here in hopes that you'll find a way to screw everyone else.

That's all for now.

JB

 

[prechilill]

One more thing. UAL ALPA deserves most of the credit for showing the other labor groups how to wreck United. The summer of 2000 worked wonders for them. They have shown how greed works, how screwing passengers works, how saying no to management gets results. So, for those of you thinking the IAM is the genisis of just saying no, think again. The mechs are just borrowing a page out of ALPA's playbook. Good job IAM

 

[prechilill]

It is going to be entertaining this weekend to watch the bafoons in Elk Grove come hat in hand to the IAM begging forgiveness for the screwing UAL has been giving them for the past decade. A new T/A will come out and pass by end of next week.

 

[wts54]

What do you guys think it would take for it
to pass??

 

[prechilill]

mastermech, you are 100% dead on in your thinking. Good job for voting no. Please pass this on to the rest in your shop who were smart enough to vote no next time you go to work.

 

[RV4]

jb,

Is there ever a good time to reach the conclusion that your union sucks and needs to be replaced?

There always been and always will be in this industry, some reason why it is not a good time.

Fact is the UAL Mechanics had enough election authorization cards signed and the election would have taken place already. But the wonderful NMB was politically influenced by our own union dues money. The NMB decided to include Non-union management types into the craft or class therby making the tally short on enough cards by only about 4 cards. Talk about Communism.

I also apologize, but the mechanics of the industry have had enough already.

However, there are still many within our ranks that believe we should continue to rely on elected politcians for items which can be obtained on our own given the right leadership and conviction. I fear that as long as the group wants to rely of the government, we will get no where and thus continue whining about it on forums such as this one.