More Competition

[john john]

CHERRY PICK
Classic WN

 

[redheadtempe33]

Look at what WN has been up to lately. Most of the smaller markets are tapped out. They are entering cities like LGA, BOS, PHL etc. Do you seriously think that WN won't come to CLT? CLT is a growing city and getting bigger each year. Think again if you believe WN won't be knocking on the door. There isn't a city that I know of that said, "Ummm thanks anyway but we're happy with our legacy carrier and high fares". Please. 🙄 WN will come to CLT when they are good and ready. It's not a question of IF but WHEN. For now they'll just circle the area around CLT before making their grand entrance. 😉

There are bigger and more lucrative markets to go after before CLT though. WN has a relatively small operation in BOS, MSP, MKE, LGA, and CLE (which will be gone as a hub if UA & CO go through), and Dallas (post-Wright). There is also MIA and ATL. I think SW has bigger fish to fry for the near future

 

[john john]

I think SW has bigger fish to fry for the near future

They been frying fish at US demises

 

[SS255]

Why invade CLT? If I'm WN I build up EVERY airport surrounding CLT. Like the ones they are entering. Oddly enough that was the strategy of Mao Tse Tung, we starved the big cities by conquering the countryside. If they set up shop in Greenboro, Greenville/Spartanburg, Columbia and Charlestown and Ashville would WN then be able to crush yields in CLT? Seem to me they could put a real dent in CLT especially if the out cities go to PHL, LGA & DCA.

Just a thought.

This is an excellent point. I seem to recall that AVP's mainline service to US disappeared right around the time that WN moved into PHL. Many people I know started driving to PHL (2 hours away) to fly WN instead of flying out of AVP and connecting on US or other mainline carriers.

While WN's move into CHS and GSP may not make much of a dent in CLT's numbers (especially among business travelers), it's sure to affect service in some of the smaller markets within a few hours' driving distance to CLT.

 

[Travelpro72]

CLT may not be the next city that WN decides to serve but surely it's on their list. Look at the cities they serve in the northeast. They eventually decided to go into the bigger market and go after the larger O&D and business traveller. Again, IMO it's a matter of WHEN not IF WN comes to CLT. When they do it will surely be their usual destinations. Then again when they came to PIT what was the reason to serve PIT-PHL? Hmmmm Let me guess who they were going after. Since WN has come to the PIT market US has reduced MOST of the flying on that route to Republic with a crj in there coupled with very few mainline. Give it time.....WN will land in CLT.

 

[hamiltbt]

10,000,000 O&D Passengers in Clt?- check your facts no where near that number. I think the number is more like 2.5 million but it did grow by a healthy 8.4% last year but not 10 million. And yes some destinations from CLT do have LCC service but SW is the king of LCC's and they do trash yields in every market they enter or encircle. I do think it is a matter of time until they enter CLT not with a massive operation but with a small operation like RDU - but who knows Jerry Orr has bet the farm that US will be there forever- only time will tell however.

Yes, please check your facts indeed. In 2009 CLT was the 24th busiest airport in terms of passenger traffic, and the 10th biggest in the US.

 

[signals]

If I were to change my user name it would be WNFAN1! How can you not love LUV? The heart on their brass seems what they are aiming for. I wouldn't want to be U! GO SOUTHWEST!!! Bring back the hot pants or short shorts! :blink:

 

[wings396]

This is an excellent point. I seem to recall that AVP's mainline service to US disappeared right around the time that WN moved into PHL. Many people I know started driving to PHL (2 hours away) to fly WN instead of flying out of AVP and connecting on US or other mainline carriers.

While WN's move into CHS and GSP may not make much of a dent in CLT's numbers (especially among business travelers), it's sure to affect service in some of the smaller markets within a few hours' driving distance to CLT.

The loss of Mainline flying at AVP had more to do with the slow death of the PIT Hub. Both AVP & ABE lost all of their PIT Mainline flying within a short time following 9/11. As of today the only Mainline service out of ABE is to CLT, and that is only ONE flight per day. I don't think that the arrival of SWA into PHL played any role in the reduction of Mainline service to either AVP or ABE. While AVP is quite a hike from PHL, ABE isn't. The location of ABE places it right in the middle of either EWR or PHL, and local passengers have opted to drive to either of those cities for a nonstop flight long before SWA came into the picture. Keep in mind that ABE lost Mainline service by DL & UA shortly after 9/11 as well. Smaller airports can't offer the variety of nonstop service that a Hub can, so it is a given that many people will go elsewhere to avoid a connecting flight. When ABE had a nonstop to MCO there were people driving in from the areas of AVP, RDG, Western NJ, along with those who lived just north of the PHL area. While I can understand people driving a long distance to a city for nonstop service, I can't see them driving away from one such as a Hub that already offers it. While CLT may lose some passengers that were driving in from the outstations, I don't see them losing tons of locals heading out of town.

 

[signals]

CLT may not be the next city that WN decides to serve but surely it's on their list. Look at the cities they serve in the northeast. They eventually decided to go into the bigger market and go after the larger O&D and business traveller. Again, IMO it's a matter of WHEN not IF WN comes to CLT. When they do it will surely be their usual destinations. Then again when they came to PIT what was the reason to serve PIT-PHL? Hmmmm Let me guess who they were going after. Since WN has come to the PIT market US has reduced MOST of the flying on that route to Republic with a crj in there coupled with very few mainline. Give it time.....WN will land in CLT.

Yes and holy crap YES! I have been insinuating this point exactly and I WANT THE CREDIT FOR IT! Apparently US is a LUV target. They killed US in Pit and are currently at war in Philadelphia. Charlotte is US's last stand sort of speak and it seems what they are aiming for! I don't know what US did, nor do I care, to tick off WN but they are targeting U! And I LUV it! 😀 I actually see the magic formula, do U?

To tear US apart...aim for the heart! get it? 😛

I dub CLT battle of the brass 😛

Secret secret I gotta secret: If US goes back in BK, WN will own Ur @$$!!! 😀

 

[LD3]

Yes and holy crap YES! I have been insinuating this point exactly and I WANT THE CREDIT FOR IT! Apparently US is a LUV target. They killed US in Pit and are currently at war in Philadelphia. Charlotte is US's last stand sort of speak and it seems what they are aiming for! I don't know what US did, nor do I care, to tick off WN but they are targeting U! And I LUV it! 😀 I actually see the magic formula, do U?

To tear US apart...aim for the heart! get it? 😛

I dub CLT battle of the brass 😛

Secret secret I gotta secret: If US goes back in BK, WN will own Ur @$$!!! 😀

You must have a chub thinking about all the people that would be out of a job.....

 

[jimcfs]

This is an excellent point. I seem to recall that AVP's mainline service to US disappeared right around the time that WN moved into PHL. Many people I know started driving to PHL (2 hours away) to fly WN instead of flying out of AVP and connecting on US or other mainline carriers.

While WN's move into CHS and GSP may not make much of a dent in CLT's numbers (especially among business travelers), it's sure to affect service in some of the smaller markets within a few hours' driving distance to CLT.

AVL, CAE, HHH, SAV, and AHN (though US EX been long out of there since the demise of Air Midwest) immediately come to mind. SAV has JAX nearby, so that would be a double hit.

 

[SS255]

The loss of Mainline flying at AVP had more to do with the slow death of the PIT Hub. Both AVP & ABE lost all of their PIT Mainline flying within a short time following 9/11.

True. WN moved into PHL while the gradual stripping of PIT was in progress. But we used to also have mainline AVP-PHL (1X or 2X day, IIRC), and whether it was the after-effects of 9/11, or WN in spittin' distance, or both, the combination of having to fly an Express connection to get anywhere is not as attractive as driving 2 or 3 hours and flying nonstop. No matter what the airline, mainline nonstop will win out in many cases.

Now the folks who would ordinarily drive to CLT will have other options on a competitor, and it will inevitably result in less connecting options on US to CLT. Even the reduction of one flight per day will be a loss to these smaller markets.

 

[wings396]

True. WN moved into PHL while the gradual stripping of PIT was in progress. But we used to also have mainline AVP-PHL (1X or 2X day, IIRC), and whether it was the after-effects of 9/11, or WN in spittin' distance, or both, the combination of having to fly an Express connection to get anywhere is not as attractive as driving 2 or 3 hours and flying nonstop. No matter what the airline, mainline nonstop will win out in many cases.

Now the folks who would ordinarily drive to CLT will have other options on a competitor, and it will inevitably result in less connecting options on US to CLT. Even the reduction of one flight per day will be a loss to these smaller markets.

There was 1 Mainline AVP-PHL flight, and it was an originator. FWIW, the company was also considering a Mainline flight from ABE to PHL in the AM. From what I was told it along with the AVP flight was more an issue of getting an A/C out of PHL for the overnight period and had nothing to due with capacity. The outstations did a better job cleaning and servicing the RON A/C than some of the Hubs did. At one time MDT had a 757 RON that went to PIT in the AM. I recall that coming to an end during the winter due to some issues with deicing the A/C in MDT....

 

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

I'd venture to say that WN's entrance to GSP is geared to siphon travelers from both CLT AND ATL. The NW suburbs of Atlanta are the same distance from GSP as it is from GSP to Charlotte. They will probably market GSP to Gwinett, Dekalb, Forsyth, Cherokee and Hall counties in GA as well as Cleveland and Gaston in NC. And while their entrance into GSP isn't surprising, CHS is. The Charleston market is healthy, but it offers no real draw from other airports in the region. I even wonder if they might even fly 1-stops to CHS via GSP to fill up planes.

 

[IberiaMAL]

I'd venture to say that WN's entrance to GSP is geared to siphon travelers from both CLT AND ATL. The NW suburbs of Atlanta are the same distance from GSP as it is from GSP to Charlotte. They will probably market GSP to Gwinett, Dekalb, Forsyth, Cherokee and Hall counties in GA as well as Cleveland and Gaston in NC. And while their entrance into GSP isn't surprising, CHS is. The Charleston market is healthy, but it offers no real draw from other airports in the region. I even wonder if they might even fly 1-stops to CHS via GSP to fill up planes.

I live in Kings Mountain Cleveland county (20 minutes West of Gastonia) & I'd never drive to Greenville for lowerfares. If you're looking for cheap airfares - Go with Airtran out of Charlotte. I mean... Is it really worth driving down there when AirTran is in Charlotte?